T Nation

Daviduartep TRT LOG


#1

Hello folks,

I am Davi, 26, from Brazil. Been reading about TRT past couple years and finally decided to start it. This is my log.

I am following KSman protocol, 100mg cypionate and 250 UI HCG (both applied EOD) and 1mg anastrozole.

My doctor insisted on nebido at first because he didn’t think injecting SQ was safe. To be fair, there is little on medical literature about SQ T injections, but I was able to convince him by showing three studies about that. But I took one nebido shot before that.

Background: 200~300 T range so far I remember on labs. Most low T symptons, not much ED though, but very low libido and very low sexual pleasure overall. Sleepiness during the day, bad memory, brain fog, terrible focus, overweight. Hypogonadism is secondary, doc put me on 5000 UI HCG + clomid to test if problem was on testicles or not, got 1100 T after a couple weeks.

Jan 05, Labs:
T - 155 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
Free T - 4.33 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 14.2 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)
E2 - <=20 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
FSH - 2.31
LH - 2.95

Feb 01, nebido shot.
I also started 250 UI HCG EOD. Mixed 5000 UI of HCG on 10ml of bacteriostatic water. It looks too much to inject 0.5ml everytime, I will be mixing with 2ml next time if that’s ok.

Feb 11, labs:
T - 722 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 28 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)

Feb 16, started KSman protocol.
Unfortunately cypionate (Deposteron here on Brazil) is out of stock on pharmacies, my doctor knew that might happen, so he also gave me a prescription for Durateston (mix of four testosterone esters), which I started using meanwhile cypionate is back on stock. I injected using 31G 6mm insulin syringes on my belly. There is 250mg on 1ml of durateston, so I injected 0.12ml, which net about 30mg EOD, or about 100mg weekly. I ordered 0.5mg caps of anastrazole, which should arrive next week, is it fine if I take it twice a week? Or should I order 0.25~0.30mg caps and take it together EOD?

I plan to take labs weekly. For now my doc left me with many requests for T and E2, should I be checking more things? If you guys wanna check how other labs do after starting TRT let me know and I will do them, I can easily get most labs done.

Side question, is it better that I update this log by editing this post, or by replying to the thread? (Or both?)

Thanks!

EDIT:
Feb 17, labs
T - 595 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 75 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)

I am feeling some high E2 symptons, in hindsight, I should have waited my anastrozole to arrive before starting TRT, luckily it will arrive tomorrow. I’ve put on 2kg (5lb~), with no change in diet, most likely due to water retention because of E2.

Feb 24, labs
T - 675 (175 - 781 ng/dL)(36h since last 30mg injection)
E2 - 23 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)(24h since last 0.5mg anastrozole)

E2 is on a nice 23, all E2 symptons went away in like 24~48h after taking anastrozole. Started noticing higher libido, more morning erections, sleep quality improving as well.

Mar 3, labs
T - 889 (175 - 781 ng/dL)(12h since last 30mg injection)
E2 - 32 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)(24 since last 0.5mg anastrozole)
Free T - 31.45 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.1 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

Mar 10, labs
T - 757 (175 - 781 ng/dL)(36h since last 30mg injection)
E2 - 57 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)(24 since last 0.5mg anastrozole)
Free T - 26.63 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 9.6 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)
TSH - 1.87 (0.38 - 5.33 microUI/mL)

Mar 17, labs
T - 762 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 31 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 26.3 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.6 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

Mar 31, labs
T - 554 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 38 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 19.56 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 8.2 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

Apr 07, labs
T - 706 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 31 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 24.33 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.3 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

Apr 14, labs
T - 743 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 20 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 25.73 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.3 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/)
Iodine - 77.1 (45 - 100 mcg/L)
TSH - 1.01 (0.58 - 5.33 microUI/mL)

Apr 21, labs
T - 760 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 39 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 26.8 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 9.5 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/)
Iodine - 49 (45 - 100 mcg/L)
TSH - 2.31 (0.58 - 5.33 microUI/mL)

Apr 28, labs
T - 601 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 33 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 20.35 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.4 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/)
Iodine - 175 (45 - 100 mcg/L)
TSH - 2.75 (0.58 - 5.33 microUI/mL)
DHT - 926 (250 - 800 pg/mL)

May 05, labs
T - 723 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 20 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 25.09 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.1 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/)
Iodine - 204 (45 - 100 mcg/L)
TSH - 2.0 (0.58 - 5.33 microUI/mL)
DHT - 537 (250 - 800 pg/mL)

May 19, labs
T - 733 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 53 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 23.96 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 13.1 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/)
Iodine - 39.9 (45 - 100 mcg/L)
TSH - 1.85 (0.58 - 5.33 microUI/mL)
DHT - pending (250 - 800 pg/mL)

May 26, labs
T - 755 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 25 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 24.43 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 13.8 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/)
Iodine - pending (45 - 100 mcg/L)
TSH - 1.22 (0.58 - 5.33 microUI/mL)
T3 - 3.53 (2.7 - 4.54 pg/L)
T4 - 0.9 (0.54 - 1.24 ng/dL)


Do Psychiatric Meds and TRT Mix?
#2

Feb 17, labs
T - 595 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 75 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)

I am feeling some high E2 symptons, in hindsight, I should have waited my anastrozole to arrive before starting TRT, luckily it will arrive tomorrow. I’ve put on 2kg (5lb~), with no change in diet, most likely due to water retention because of E2.


#3

Feb 24, labs
T - 675 (175 - 781 ng/dL)(36h since last 30mg injection)
E2 - 23 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)(24h since last 0.5mg anastrozole)

E2 is on a nice 23, all E2 symptons went away in like 24~48h after taking anastrozole. Started noticing higher libido, more morning erections, sleep quality improving as well.


#4

Mar 3, labs
T - 889 (175 - 781 ng/dL)(12h since last 30mg injection)
E2 - 32 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)(24 since last 0.5mg anastrozole)
Free T - 31.45 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.1 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

Can someone give me feedback on these levels? I’ve read SHBG of <20 is considered low and many guys have issues on that range. I’ve always had low SHBH, before TRT is was always in 12~15 range. Should I be worried?


#5

There are some guys will super low SHBG who do fine on TRT, if your biology normally operates well with lower SHBG you’ll be fine. I believe the issues with other low SHBG men is the inflammation has taken over and once that happens it’s impossible to again regain control of the situation.

There is such as thing as too far gone to be able to do anything about.


#6

Thanks systemlord for the feedback! Indeed my SHBG didnt fall much from my pre-TRT ranges, I will keep a look at it. Luckly I am already doing EOD, which I read is recommended for guys with low SHBG.

I read more about thyroid problems, I’ve always felt my body was cold, I will take my temps tomorrow and post them here.

Thanks!


#7

Mar 10, labs
T - 757 (175 - 781 ng/dL) (36h since last 30mg injection)
E2 - 57 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)(24 since last 0.5mg anastrozole)
Free T - 26.63 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 9.6 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)
TSH - 1.87 (0.38 - 5.33 microUI/mL)

The high E2 is very odd, maybe I forgot to take the pill (very unlikely), test/body fluctuation or the dose I am taking is simply not enough. I will ask my doc to prescribe 0.3mg pills so I can take EOD, it will be easier to control since I can take together with the actual injection.

Nice to see T range between 700s and 800s, that looks stable.

Temps:
97.35F on waking up
97.88F on afternoon

Temps are just a bit tad higher than KSman suggests, I used three different thermometers and took average. They have a 0.3F error range, so I will measure a couple more times to be sure.

And just to confirm, do not use on armpit, I tried and temps are 3F lower there, on all three thermometers!!


#8

A glass thermometer doesn’t have an error range, do not use a digital thermometer. Thermometer go in mouth for 5 minutes. Your levels are too high given your super low SHBG, you need to reduce dosage and come down to middle ranges. Your FT is too high and your E2 are also high.

Low SHBG guys should pay more attention to your free hormones rather than Total T.


#9

Thanks for the quick follow up systemlord!

Sorry, I mistyped FT, it is actually 26.63 not 36.63, I guess that is a more reasonable level, what do you think?
Good idea, I will order a glass termometer and make the measurements again.
I will keep measuring weekly, hopefully that high E2 is just a point off the curve.


#10

You need 98.6F - 37C mid-afternoon.
TSH should be near 1.0
I suspect that you have not been using or cooking with iodized salt.

A constant dose of anastrozole take a week to reach steady serum levels.

When you switch to T cyp, there will might be more T in your injections.

Labs should include lab ranges.

Low SHBG is sometimes indicating diabetes.
Tested A1C or fasting glucose?

If you change T dose, anastrozole demand changes.

If your dosing has been correct and E2=30 and you want E2=22, increase dose by 30/22.


Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re Thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab numbers and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#11

Can u clarify the AI dose @KSman . If taking .50.
Is the new dose .50 x 30/22 = .68
Or (.50 x 30/22) + .50 = 1.18

Thx


#12

.50 x 30/22 = .68


#13

One more question. Thx @KSman

If I am taking .25 ai with each injection total of .50. And just need .25 more. Is it ok to take the additional .25 in a day in between. For example Tues, Thur, and Saturday. Injections days are Tues and Saturday.
.
Thx .


#14

Not best, anastrozole is absorbed very well and quickly and then T–>E2 production is changed almost immediately, then the balance of production and elimination creates a new serum E2 level. So try it and be alert for how this might affect you. With a 1mg/ml solution in vodka you can have any dose you want.


#15

Thanks KSman for the followup!

Ranges:
T - 757 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 57 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 26.63 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 9.6 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)
TSH - 1.87 (0.38 - 5.33 microUI/mL)

I went to doc today, it was hard convincing him to increase anastrozole dose, he believes E2 is fine up to 40, I managed to get it increase from 1mg to 1.225mg weekly. Surprisingly, he is the most reasonable doc I managed to find, previous ones were even more out of touch with reality - cyp biweekly + no E2 control.

I read your thread about thyroid, my eating habits don’t take much salt. Currently my vits contain 100mcg of iodine, which from what I read on your thread, is not nearly enough, hence testing my temps. I’d rather take iodine via supplements, than trying to force iodized salt to my diet, I will try to get my hands on that Iodoral you mention on the thread.

What about the dosage? I read Japanese diet contain 3~10mg of Iodine daily. On your thread you say “For IR you can take up to 50 mg iodine per day and get .75 grams in two weeks.”, I take 50mg for two weeks and then stop, or is that on going? Iodoral has 12.5mg for reference.

I asked for labs for A1C and glucose.

I will keep the thread updated weekly with labs, thanks a lot!


#16

With IR you will have better body temps, energy, libido and clarity of thought withing two week or sooner if you are going to respond. After that you need a maintenance dose.

You did not mention selenium and not taking it can be dangerous.

Lowering E2 can be trans formative and the effect depends on how long your brain has been getting poisoned with E2.

What your doc does not understand is that “normal” lab ranges have nothing to do with healthy or optimal. The lab normal range captures 95% of a sample population and many of the guys in the sample had
E2 levels that were:

  • reducing energy
  • lowering libido
  • creating intolerance
  • creating mood/depression issues
  • contributing to prostate problems
  • contributing to endothelial dysfunction
  • causing fat gain and/or adverse fat patterns
  • contributing to insulin insensitivity

Lab “normal” is from a statistical normal curve/distribution and when a population has health issues, the lab normal range includes those adverse levels. “Normal” is an unfortunate term as it lead to the wrong thinking and complacency. Biggest example and problem is thyroid “normal” ranges that make most cases of thyroid dysfunction misery normal and acceptable.


#17

Thanks KSman for the follow up!

Mar 17, labs
T - 762 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 31 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 26.3 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 10.6 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

And here the ones you requested:
Glucose - 88 (60 - 99 mg/dL)
A1C - 5.2% (<5.7%)

I also requested blood test for Iodine, let me know if this is useful:
Iodine - 41.2 (45 - 100 mcg/L)

I ordered new anastrozole pills, they will arrive tomorrow and we will bring the E2 down some more.
I ordered Iodoral (5mg Iodine + 7.5mg Iodide).
My multivitamin contains 200mcg (364% DV) of selenium, is that enough? Last time I tested for selenium - 156 (90 - 130 mcg/L)

I agree about the “normal” levels. That’s why lately I’ve been reading a lot on this site: http://www.lifeextension.com/Protocols/Appendix/Lab-Testing/Page-01
It shows optimal levels instead of “normal” levels for most lab testing.

Doc wants to put me on Finasteride 1.0mg because he said my DHT is high - 813 (250 - 800 pg/mL). I read this medication is very bad for libido/ED and I’d like to know if this makes sense. I will retest DHT to be sure that value is consistent.

Other stuff he prescribed to me, mainly to lose weight faster and increased libido. Let me know if you see any red flags:
Oxandrolone 8.5mg
KIC (Alpha-ketoisocaproate) 10mg
Silibinin 120mg
N-acetylcysteine 250mg
Quercetin 50mg
Mucuna Pruriens 250mg
Yohimbine 10mg
Protodioscin 100mg
LongJack 200mg
Tribullus 250mg

Thanks a lot for the help! :slight_smile:


#18

Run the hell away from this doctor, lots of men have naturally high DHT and some of them are even bald because of it, Finasteride can fuck you over for life, permanente sexual dysfunction and a host of symptoms that make a gun to your temple not such a bad idea!

Some doctors have stated it affects low SHBG men more than high. These ranges are pure statistical and have no basis for reality, sadly your doctor is living under a rock or simply working for big pharma to push more drugs. This is how they pay their mortgages and live their lifestyles.

TRT doesn’t pay the bills which is why drugs are pushed more often and is why most doctors don’t know how to administer TRT properly. It isn’t taught because it isn’t profitable.


#19

Systemlord, you are right, this doc has no idea what he is doing. Luckly I have senses to try to understand meds he prescribe, other folks might get their life fucked by all these wrong treatments. In my country they gain nothing for prescribing X or Y meds, so he is just dumb. I will keep going to him for prescriptions only, but I will look for a better doc meanwhile.

Mar 31, labs
T - 554 (175 - 781 ng/dL)
E2 - 38 (<47 pg/mL, min sensitivity of test is 20)
Free T - 19.56 (3.17 - 19.04 ng/dL)
SHBG - 8.2 (13.2 - 89.5 nmol/L)

This is the weirdest labs by far, T is much lower than usual (like I missed a dose: I didn’t), and E2 is still high, despite increasing anastrozole. I will increase my dosage from 1.225mg weekly to 1.75mg, and see how it goes.


#20

And here are some temps, now I have 4 different termometers haha

Waking: 97.16, 96.44, 97.4, 96.74 (< 97.3 bad, > 97.7 ideal, according to KSman)
Afternoon: 98.30, 98.54, 98.66 (> 98.6 ideal, according to KSman)

Afternoon temps are close to ideal, but waking temps are terrible. Still waiting for my Iodoral to arrive.