T Nation

David Barr - Prime Time 6/22/05

Need some help. How does my meal plan below look? Is it the most optimal plan or can you find a better way to spread out the meals? I’m not sure if Meal #2 is optimal right after working out? I can’t afford to have two servings of Surge a day. I was trying to follow your last article. Wake up and eat right away. Hour and a half later lift. Ten minutes before working out take full serving of Surge.

9:00 Wake up and eat Meal #1
Oatmeal (1/2c) w/ blueberries (handful) might try some Low Carb Grow! in it when I get the new flavors
Pineapple (5 rings)
Green Tea © w lemon
Fish Oil Capsules (3)
Water

10:20 Serving of Surge

10:30 Lift

11:30/12:00 Meal #2
Chicken Breast (4oz)
Broccoli (c or more) or Veg mix (broccoli, carrots, red peppers, potatoes)
Water

2:00 Carbolin 19 (2 caps)

2:30 Meal #3
Hamburger (8oz) (lean/plain)
Spinach (1c)
Carrots (1c)
Apple
Fish Oil Capsules (3)
Water

5:30 Meal #4
Chicken Breast (4oz)
Broccoli (c or more) or Veg mix (broccoli, carrots, red peppers, potatoes)
Water

8:00 Carbolin 19 (2 caps)

8:30 Meal #5
Hamburger (8oz) (lean/plain)
Spinach (1c)
Carrots (1c)
Apple
Fish Oil Capsules (3)
Water

11:00 Meal #6
Peanut Butter (plain) & Jelly

12:45 Meal #7
Low-Carb Grow! in either plain yogurt or cottage cheese

—Edited—

Hijack…

Provy, what’s your total kcal intake? Do you know?

It may help Dave to see amounts of oats, etc. to help get a handle on total kcal intake.

And I’m curious as to why there’s not more carbs post-workout. It really is a great time to get them in and partition them into the tissue of interest (muscle) for most athletes.

Just some thoughts.

LL

Hi Lonnie,
I’m not sure of my total kcal intake. I just started dieting recently and have tweaked JB’s No Nonsense Nutrition plan a bit. Eventually I want to get on the Massive Eating recommendations but for now I would just like to have this “base” diet.

As for your question. I’m not sure? lol. I just came up with this new layout today. I had been sipping half a serving of Surge during the workout and drinking the rest right after. After reading David’s latest article I decided to switch it up. Can you see a better way of going about the post workout meal with the meals I have outlined? If not any other recommendations?

Thanks for the reply. Your welcome to hijack my post anytime! :slight_smile:

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
Hijack…

Provy, what’s your total kcal intake? Do you know?

It may help Dave to see amounts of oats, etc. to help get a handle on total kcal intake.

And I’m curious as to why there’s not more carbs post-workout. It really is a great time to get them in and partition them into the tissue of interest (muscle) for most athletes.

Just some thoughts.

LL[/quote]

Total nitpicking…
I’m personally not a fan of consumimg carbs prior to workouts when “direct fat burning” is the goal. The insulin release is great for muscle gain but will also protect body fat reserves. If however, one starts drinking some dilute carbs after exercise begins (say, 10-20 minutes in), the natural stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system from the exercise will prevent excessive insulin secretion (thus, no hampering of fat loss efforts). This is a tweak, however, and total kcal expenditure matters most.

The two schools of thought here are…
A.) Carbs and insulin provid energy / muscle preservation which can increase total calorie expenditure during the bout

vs.

B.) Avoid the pre-workout, fat-protective insulin during diet phases by just getting-in a half-scoop of protein in water 30-60 min. prior. Some guys go with unsweetened java (pros and cons). Then some carbs and more protein can subsequently flow once a lifter has begun his exercise.

Just some food for thought. (Oh, and I still think some post-workout high glycemic CHO would help replenish glycogen reserves and provide energy for tomorrow’s training!)

Lonnie,
Thanks for the replies. My goal is muscle mass. I’m scrawny now and have a bodyfat of 11% so that isn’t much of an issue right now.

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
Total nitpicking…
I’m personally not a fan of consumimg carbs prior to workouts when “direct fat burning” is the goal. The insulin release is great for muscle gain but will also protect body fat reserves. If however, one starts drinking some dilute carbs after exercise begins (say, 10-20 minutes in), the natural stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system from the exercise will prevent excessive insulin secretion (thus, no hampering of fat loss efforts). This is a tweak, however, and total kcal expenditure matters most.

The two schools of thought here are…
A.) Carbs and insulin provid energy / muscle preservation which can increase total calorie expenditure during the bout

vs.

B.) Avoid the pre-workout, fat-protective insulin during diet phases by just getting-in a half-scoop of protein in water 30-60 min. prior. Some guys go with unsweetened java (pros and cons). Then some carbs and more protein can subsequently flow once a lifter has begun his exercise.

Just some food for thought. (Oh, and I still think some post-workout high glycemic CHO would help replenish glycogen reserves and provide energy for tomorrow’s training!)

[/quote]

Oh, my bad. I thought you mentioned “starting a new diet” somewhere. Of course, this doesn’t have to mean dietary restriction, eh?

Well, then carbs and protein pre-, mid-and post-lifting is best.

This peri-workout wnidow of opportunity shouldn’t be passed up. 20-40 g PRO and double this many carbs before… perhaps 10g PRO and 60-80g carbs during… and 40g PRO + 80-100g carbs in each of two post-workout meals is generally a good start toward partitioning the nutrients where a guy wants them to go.

And provy, I didn’t mention dietary fat.

Post-workout, adding fat shouldn’t interfere with the well-timed PRO and CHO, according to fairly new research. There used to be a little concern over this. Based on general daily needs/ totals, I’d guess up to 30g fat could be added, particularly to the second post-workout meal.

I agree with Dr. Lonman here. For fat loss, fat and CHO fasted is the best physiological state. Low-Carb Grow! comes in to play half an hour to an hour before training.

This may not deal with the situation at hand, but damnit, it’s good advice! LOL

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
Total nitpicking…
I’m personally not a fan of consumimg carbs prior to workouts when “direct fat burning” is the goal. The insulin release is great for muscle gain but will also protect body fat reserves. If however, one starts drinking some dilute carbs after exercise begins (say, 10-20 minutes in), the natural stimulation of the sympathetic nervous system from the exercise will prevent excessive insulin secretion (thus, no hampering of fat loss efforts). This is a tweak, however, and total kcal expenditure matters most.

The two schools of thought here are…
A.) Carbs and insulin provid energy / muscle preservation which can increase total calorie expenditure during the bout

vs.

B.) Avoid the pre-workout, fat-protective insulin during diet phases by just getting-in a half-scoop of protein in water 30-60 min. prior. Some guys go with unsweetened java (pros and cons). Then some carbs and more protein can subsequently flow once a lifter has begun his exercise.

Just some food for thought. (Oh, and I still think some post-workout high glycemic CHO would help replenish glycogen reserves and provide energy for tomorrow’s training!)

[/quote]

provy, be careful or Dr. Lonman will start suggesting that you use glutamine.

[quote]Lonnie Lowery wrote:
Well, then carbs and protein pre-, mid-and post-lifting is best.

This peri-workout wnidow of opportunity shouldn’t be passed up. 20-40 g PRO and double this many carbs before… perhaps 10g PRO and 60-80g carbs during… and 40g PRO + 80-100g carbs in each of two post-workout meals is generally a good start toward partitioning the nutrients where a guy wants them to go.
[/quote]

provy, your outline looks pretty good!

For general suggestions, as Dr. Lonman mentioned, I’d add WAAY more carbs and healthy fats, throughout the day.

I’d also spread out my Carbolin 19 intake to 12h apart instead of 6. Even try for 3 doses/day.

It’s hard to be more specific, but the general rules are there.

Good luck and keep us updated!

If carbs and protein pre-, mid-and post-lifting is best for muscle gains, how much Surge at each one of these times should I be taking. I weigh 235-240. Should I be taking 3 scoops at all these times?

I really need the answer to my above post. Please help out.

The take-home thing that I think I got out of DB’s latest article was that the aminos (protein) were very important pre-workout, but not necessarily the carbs. So you don’t necessarily need Surge pre-workout, but you should have something that will get aminos into your system.

A big glass of milk might do the trick.

Correct me if I’m wrong, guys.

tuffold, you’ll burn off (aka oxidize)most of the protein if you’re having 9 scoops per workout, not to mention damage your kidneys (KIDDING).

2.5 before and 2.5 scoops after is the most you’ll need.

Cheers

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
If carbs and protein pre-, mid-and post-lifting is best for muscle gains, how much Surge at each one of these times should I be taking. I weigh 235-240. Should I be taking 3 scoops at all these times?[/quote]