T Nation

Dave Tate Coaching for Crossfit!

Weird. Like Tate said, I’m not even sure why he was there.

He basically said… “I know how to get big and strong, so I know nothing about crossfit.”

LOL.

Heh. I hope we get an article out of it from him. Would be interesting.


Dave’s the man, no doubt about it. But this shot kinda worries me… Ha!

Dave is only 39? Damn, I always thought he was older.

Money’s money’s money.

With crossfit it’s not the parts that are bad, just how they’re put together.

Look at the parts and the coaches they have:

Powerlifting
O-lifting
gymnastics
parkour
tony blauer
rippetoe
burgener
Kelly starret
and now dave tate

but it’s how it’s all put together that is ridiculous.

Good attitude, good tools, great facilities [crossfit gym usually has a bar that spins and bumpers, though oddly in lbs and not kg]… poor methods, no programming.

So they get all kinds of great coaches to come around and speak in specifics and then they proceed to fuck it up themselves after the real coaches leave.

-chris

Guys - why can’t people try to get better at stuff without getting chirped?
Crossfit has some strong guys - one of our own just posted a 1060 total this weekend UNBELTED. That’s a non-powerlifter doing Crossfit, with no bench press (shoulder press with zero leg drive instead.) How many here could do that?

Crossfit is exposing more of the general public to PL, OL, and HIIT than any other source. It’s getting them out of chromey gyms and flipping tires, pulling max DLs, and listening to guys like Tate.
Honestly, what’s it going to take?
If you’ve met Tate, you’ll know that he’s always open to learning new stuff. That’s why he’s great. That’s why he’s successful and people listen to him. Are YOU?

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
Guys - why can’t people try to get better at stuff without getting chirped?
Crossfit has some strong guys - one of our own just posted a 1060 total this weekend UNBELTED. That’s a non-powerlifter doing Crossfit, with no bench press (shoulder press with zero leg drive instead.) How many here could do that?

Crossfit is exposing more of the general public to PL, OL, and HIIT than any other source. It’s getting them out of chromey gyms and flipping tires, pulling max DLs, and listening to guys like Tate.
Honestly, what’s it going to take?
If you’ve met Tate, you’ll know that he’s always open to learning new stuff. That’s why he’s great. That’s why he’s successful and people listen to him. Are YOU?[/quote]

Not to sound like a dick head but I’m pretty sure there are plenty of people who post here that could post that 1060 total.

I have no beef with cross fit. Apart from the fact that it wreaks of gay.

A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?

Here’s why I care enough to post. When I read this site in 2001, it was new. It had its swagger on, but it would take new information, disseminate, use what it could and not use the rest. Tate was a new author; Poliquin was pretty much the same; guys like Robertson and Berardi weren’t even writing here yet.
I think I’m one of the very few people who can say they’ve read every article ever posted on this site; I was even lucky enough to have my own poor attempts posted here once!

Now, though, it seems the site is trying hard to entrench and defend. If Cressey tells you to do a combination of 3 exercises and calls it a ‘complex,’ it’s awesome. If Crossfit calls the same complex ‘Wynona,’ it’s gay. If Dan John tells you to do Tabata, it’s a revelation; if it comes from Greg Glassman, there’s no way it can work. If the Beast tells you to master the OLY lifts, he gets 200 positive responses; if a Crossfit gym hires an elite OLY coach to come in and teach its athletes how to jerk, we’ll “fuck it up as soon as they leave.”

Dave Tate takes a rookie through a box squat session, and the rookie sells a book. Tate shows up to teach the same thing to a group of Crossfitters, and he must only be doing it for money. Please; if you met the man, you’d know he was no sellout.

A few months ago, I posted a bunch of pics of our new gym on a thread, and asked for suggestions for improvement. I had a bunch of great responses; we have monkey bars, Strongman implements, 3 OLY Platforms, cages, bumper plate, tires and kegs and hex bars and ropes and GHRs and reverse hypers and now, thanks to the suggestion of a T-Nation member, a reading library for our members in our mezzanine. We sell memberships and have a PL group. We also do Crossfit. Please, someone tell me in person that we suck.

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?

Here’s why I care enough to post. When I read this site in 2001, it was new. It had its swagger on, but it would take new information, disseminate, use what it could and not use the rest. Tate was a new author; Poliquin was pretty much the same; guys like Robertson and Berardi weren’t even writing here yet.
I think I’m one of the very few people who can say they’ve read every article ever posted on this site; I was even lucky enough to have my own poor attempts posted here once!

Now, though, it seems the site is trying hard to entrench and defend. If Cressey tells you to do a combination of 3 exercises and calls it a ‘complex,’ it’s awesome. If Crossfit calls the same complex ‘Wynona,’ it’s gay. If Dan John tells you to do Tabata, it’s a revelation; if it comes from Greg Glassman, there’s no way it can work. If the Beast tells you to master the OLY lifts, he gets 200 positive responses; if a Crossfit gym hires an elite OLY coach to come in and teach its athletes how to jerk, we’ll “fuck it up as soon as they leave.”

Dave Tate takes a rookie through a box squat session, and the rookie sells a book. Tate shows up to teach the same thing to a group of Crossfitters, and he must only be doing it for money. Please; if you met the man, you’d know he was no sellout.

A few months ago, I posted a bunch of pics of our new gym on a thread, and asked for suggestions for improvement. I had a bunch of great responses; we have monkey bars, Strongman implements, 3 OLY Platforms, cages, bumper plate, tires and kegs and hex bars and ropes and GHRs and reverse hypers and now, thanks to the suggestion of a T-Nation member, a reading library for our members in our mezzanine. We sell memberships and have a PL group. We also do Crossfit. Please, someone tell me in person that we suck. [/quote]

Yeah it’s not the jerks themselves they fuck up I’ve seen some nice jerks come out of crossfit athletes [although i still wonder about the tendency to push instead of split]. It’s how the jerk fit into the programming.

It’s stuff like “Grace” [30 full Clean and Jerks for time] that make me “feel” [as in who should really care about my feelings, so dont be offended] as though crossfit misfires in some small way regarding the programming aspect. And I’m not saying its wrong, just not optimal in my opinion [which not even i really care about]. Then the “uneven grace” really tops it off. That is where i really lost faith.

that being said, each crossfit gym is a microcosm of itself that either follows the glassman koolaid pattern or thinks for itself. The ones that think for themselves and dont jock-ride the WOD are usually phenomenal training areas.

-chris

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?

Here’s why I care enough to post. When I read this site in 2001, it was new. It had its swagger on, but it would take new information, disseminate, use what it could and not use the rest. Tate was a new author; Poliquin was pretty much the same; guys like Robertson and Berardi weren’t even writing here yet.
I think I’m one of the very few people who can say they’ve read every article ever posted on this site; I was even lucky enough to have my own poor attempts posted here once!

Now, though, it seems the site is trying hard to entrench and defend. If Cressey tells you to do a combination of 3 exercises and calls it a ‘complex,’ it’s awesome. If Crossfit calls the same complex ‘Wynona,’ it’s gay. If Dan John tells you to do Tabata, it’s a revelation; if it comes from Greg Glassman, there’s no way it can work. If the Beast tells you to master the OLY lifts, he gets 200 positive responses; if a Crossfit gym hires an elite OLY coach to come in and teach its athletes how to jerk, we’ll “fuck it up as soon as they leave.”

Dave Tate takes a rookie through a box squat session, and the rookie sells a book. Tate shows up to teach the same thing to a group of Crossfitters, and he must only be doing it for money. Please; if you met the man, you’d know he was no sellout.

A few months ago, I posted a bunch of pics of our new gym on a thread, and asked for suggestions for improvement. I had a bunch of great responses; we have monkey bars, Strongman implements, 3 OLY Platforms, cages, bumper plate, tires and kegs and hex bars and ropes and GHRs and reverse hypers and now, thanks to the suggestion of a T-Nation member, a reading library for our members in our mezzanine. We sell memberships and have a PL group. We also do Crossfit. Please, someone tell me in person that we suck. [/quote]

Untwist your pants and take a seat.

400 squat, 500 deadlift and a 160 press not exactly great unbelted or belted. Not bad but far from magical.

I don’t suck up to authors on this site far from it. There are plenty are do but most of those people are new or don’t think for themselves on a regular basis.

If you pay me enough money I will wear a crossfit bikini I don’t give a fuck.

Hiring coaches to teach the lifts while a step in the right direction does not un fuck cross fit.

Cross fit as I have seen uses oly variations as cardio which is silly but if you want to do sweet.

But do not act like it is some new variation on training its circuit training with a top hat on.

Cross fit is cool if you want to do it sweet. If you want to powerlift sweet etc etc.

But don’t strut about like your method of training is the be all and end all because nothing is.

That isn’t aimed at you specifically just people in general who hang on to one training method like it is IT!

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?

Here’s why I care enough to post. When I read this site in 2001, it was new. It had its swagger on, but it would take new information, disseminate, use what it could and not use the rest. Tate was a new author; Poliquin was pretty much the same; guys like Robertson and Berardi weren’t even writing here yet.
I think I’m one of the very few people who can say they’ve read every article ever posted on this site; I was even lucky enough to have my own poor attempts posted here once!

Now, though, it seems the site is trying hard to entrench and defend. If Cressey tells you to do a combination of 3 exercises and calls it a ‘complex,’ it’s awesome. If Crossfit calls the same complex ‘Wynona,’ it’s gay. If Dan John tells you to do Tabata, it’s a revelation; if it comes from Greg Glassman, there’s no way it can work. If the Beast tells you to master the OLY lifts, he gets 200 positive responses; if a Crossfit gym hires an elite OLY coach to come in and teach its athletes how to jerk, we’ll “fuck it up as soon as they leave.”

Dave Tate takes a rookie through a box squat session, and the rookie sells a book. Tate shows up to teach the same thing to a group of Crossfitters, and he must only be doing it for money. Please; if you met the man, you’d know he was no sellout.

A few months ago, I posted a bunch of pics of our new gym on a thread, and asked for suggestions for improvement. I had a bunch of great responses; we have monkey bars, Strongman implements, 3 OLY Platforms, cages, bumper plate, tires and kegs and hex bars and ropes and GHRs and reverse hypers and now, thanks to the suggestion of a T-Nation member, a reading library for our members in our mezzanine. We sell memberships and have a PL group. We also do Crossfit. Please, someone tell me in person that we suck. [/quote]

As someone who’s spent a lot of time doing CF and reading on their site a MB (and has a subscription to the Journal), I feel that it’s a problem of some bad apples spoiling the barrel.

Look, there are certainly a number of fantastic CF trainers out there–I love Kelly Starret’s stuff, I think Greg Everett is really fucking smart, and Robb Wolf knows nutrition better than just about anyone.

But for every one of these guys, who quietly use intelligent programming with their clients, really understand the principles of sound training, and emphasize proper mechanics, technique, and the position of GPP as a component in a larger training scheme, there are 10 Level One certified “trainers” who got their certification through a weekend course and think that because Mike Burgener worked with them on their snatch for a few hours last Saturday and Sunday that they can coach other people.

These are the guys that irk me, because they’re the ones making absurd claims about the efficacy of CrossFit over properly planned, periodized, and sport-specific training programs. They’re the ones who post their 300lb deadlifts on the main site’s ME days, noting that they kept things light “to work on form,” but conveniently ignore any notion of proper form or technique the next time “Diane” comes around.

They’re the ones claiming that something is an effective training stimulus just because it’s really fucking hard.

These guys are loud, they are ill-informed, ill-trained, and they are giving ALL of the intelligent CF trainers a bad name. If you guys want respect from the rest of the S&C community, you need to start cracking down on these slapdicks, because they are making fools out of all of you.

[quote]Avocado wrote:
Money’s money’s money.

With crossfit it’s not the parts that are bad, just how they’re put together.

Look at the parts and the coaches they have:

Powerlifting
O-lifting
gymnastics
parkour
tony blauer
rippetoe
burgener
Kelly starret
and now dave tate

but it’s how it’s all put together that is ridiculous.

Good attitude, good tools, great facilities [crossfit gym usually has a bar that spins and bumpers, though oddly in lbs and not kg]… poor methods, no programming.

So they get all kinds of great coaches to come around and speak in specifics and then they proceed to fuck it up themselves after the real coaches leave.

-chris[/quote]

Also this post seems more than 60% supportive of crossfit.

-chris

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?[/quote]

1060 is probably the exception to the rule, and not the norm. With that said, yes, I could hit that, beltless, to depth with just my Squat and DL, and even take a negative number on my Shoulder press. In PL, you are allowed to wear a belt, so why not? It’s not like wearing the belt is going to make your abs or back turn to mush. In PL you don’t have to go ATG, so why do it if it’s going to lower your total?

I actually don’t hate crossfit. I’ve never done it, nor do I intend to, but I do think there are some interesting concepts, and it looks like it would be tough as hell.

The main problems that I, and many of the people I’ve talked to about it have, are these:

A) In general, people that do Crossfit are cultish in their attituded about doing it. There seems to be this sentiment of “Why wouldn’t you do Crossfit? Why would you want to do anything else?”

and

B) It would seem that most people who do Crossfit want to be good at everything and great at nothing.

The people that I know that do/have done Crossfit are in very good shape, and are probably much stronger than the average gym trainee. In fact, they tend to have a very strong work ethic when it comes to training.

However, I understand why people specialize in Oly, or Strongman, or PL, or Body Building, or whatever. And from the conversations I’ve had with Crossfitters, they don’t.

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?
[/quote]

So what you’re saying is that that 1060 total “conforming to PL rules” is still “conforming to PL rules” by completely substituting a lift? Stop.

It’s fairly impressive, no less, but if you’re going to get into technicalities, it’s not “conforming to PL rules.”

As for CF, I don’t really like it in general. It’s good for conditioning work, but IMO, that’s about it.

And, for the record, I lift IN a CF facility (that’s got a PL gym inside it) and I see their athletes and how they train, etc.

That said, they do seem to have excellent facilities.

1060… .woooooo. Hardcore.

Here’s another factor to consider. A hell of a lot of the “strong” crossfitters are guys who went to crossfit already strong.

It’s not like it made them that way.

And like Modi, I’d do 1060 with my squat, deadlift and a negative press.

[quote]Catalyst Fitness wrote:
Guys - why can’t people try to get better at stuff without getting chirped?
Crossfit has some strong guys - one of our own just posted a 1060 total this weekend UNBELTED. That’s a non-powerlifter doing Crossfit, with no bench press (shoulder press with zero leg drive instead.) How many here could do that?
[/quote]

Uhh I haven’t lifted raw in years and I consider myself a very weak powerlifter but I could hit 1060 of squat/shoulder press/conv. dead without much problem.

[quote]Sneaky weasel wrote:
Catalyst Fitness wrote:
A 1060 total, conforming to PL rules, but using a shoulder press instead of a bench? Unbelted? To depth?

Here’s why I care enough to post. When I read this site in 2001, it was new. It had its swagger on, but it would take new information, disseminate, use what it could and not use the rest. Tate was a new author; Poliquin was pretty much the same; guys like Robertson and Berardi weren’t even writing here yet.
I think I’m one of the very few people who can say they’ve read every article ever posted on this site; I was even lucky enough to have my own poor attempts posted here once!

Now, though, it seems the site is trying hard to entrench and defend. If Cressey tells you to do a combination of 3 exercises and calls it a ‘complex,’ it’s awesome. If Crossfit calls the same complex ‘Wynona,’ it’s gay. If Dan John tells you to do Tabata, it’s a revelation; if it comes from Greg Glassman, there’s no way it can work. If the Beast tells you to master the OLY lifts, he gets 200 positive responses; if a Crossfit gym hires an elite OLY coach to come in and teach its athletes how to jerk, we’ll “fuck it up as soon as they leave.”

Dave Tate takes a rookie through a box squat session, and the rookie sells a book. Tate shows up to teach the same thing to a group of Crossfitters, and he must only be doing it for money. Please; if you met the man, you’d know he was no sellout.

A few months ago, I posted a bunch of pics of our new gym on a thread, and asked for suggestions for improvement. I had a bunch of great responses; we have monkey bars, Strongman implements, 3 OLY Platforms, cages, bumper plate, tires and kegs and hex bars and ropes and GHRs and reverse hypers and now, thanks to the suggestion of a T-Nation member, a reading library for our members in our mezzanine. We sell memberships and have a PL group. We also do Crossfit. Please, someone tell me in person that we suck.

As someone who’s spent a lot of time doing CF and reading on their site a MB (and has a subscription to the Journal), I feel that it’s a problem of some bad apples spoiling the barrel.

Look, there are certainly a number of fantastic CF trainers out there–I love Kelly Starret’s stuff, I think Greg Everett is really fucking smart, and Robb Wolf knows nutrition better than just about anyone.

But for every one of these guys, who quietly use intelligent programming with their clients, really understand the principles of sound training, and emphasize proper mechanics, technique, and the position of GPP as a component in a larger training scheme, there are 10 Level One certified “trainers” who got their certification through a weekend course and think that because Mike Burgener worked with them on their snatch for a few hours last Saturday and Sunday that they can coach other people.

These are the guys that irk me, because they’re the ones making absurd claims about the efficacy of CrossFit over properly planned, periodized, and sport-specific training programs. They’re the ones who post their 300lb deadlifts on the main site’s ME days, noting that they kept things light “to work on form,” but conveniently ignore any notion of proper form or technique the next time “Diane” comes around.

They’re the ones claiming that something is an effective training stimulus just because it’s really fucking hard.

These guys are loud, they are ill-informed, ill-trained, and they are giving ALL of the intelligent CF trainers a bad name. If you guys want respect from the rest of the S&C community, you need to start cracking down on these slapdicks, because they are making fools out of all of you.[/quote]

A great success. I have no idea how SW will remove his dick from the correct here.

this is basically a far more articulate fersion of what I mean to say.

Old mate “johnathan” [not john, johny, or j dizzle but johnathan] who works down at the fitness center I used to train athletes at has a cert he got in two days on the internet, CF level 1, CF KB cert, CF weightlifting cert, and a CF running cert. all within the last year. That’s like $5000 USD.

He’s telling me that my Snatch tech and Clean tech are crap because I’m “not driving through the heels” [because I’m pressing with my calves on the pull etc. as if I can’t transfer the pressing point or something].

I say “didn’t coach burgener tell you to press through the toes to get that power on the 2nd pull?”

“Yeah, he did. But then coach glassman said that we should be pressing through the heels the whole time to trigger the glute/hams.”

“Who’s the O-lifting coach?”

~silence~

“why cant you press through the whole foot and then the toes?”

~silence~

FAIL

And this guy charges $90 CAD/session for his “coaching” in real life.

It’s these guys that are ruining the crossfit cause. Johnny thinks he’s fast and good at metcon shit and that’s his excuse for being weak. So him, my 36 year old female “walking for breast cancer” athlete, and me all do the WOD. It was like Burpees, deadlifts and sit ups for time. My athlete smoked him, but not because she was fast at the WOD… but because she finished it. He quit the 3rd time around of like 5 or something. And somehow my fat, bad technique, non-functional ass got a starboy time compared to the cats on the main site.

I dont know what to say about these guys. I love the coaches they bring in and would love to go if it didn’t cost a ton. I’m getting my CSCS for less money, more time. But i just have only ever met [in person] like 2 “crossfitters” that had an open mind to anything other than glassman and the WOD “theory.”

I find most of the legit crossfit trainers that I’ve met are pretty quiet about it.

-chris

lol@ creaming your pants over a 1060

the people who post on this site are mostly PLers and BBers

crossfit is hardly applicable to either one so why do you expected to be greeted warmheartedly?

[quote]Hanley wrote:
1060… .woooooo. Hardcore.

Here’s another factor to consider. A hell of a lot of the “strong” crossfitters are guys who went to crossfit already strong.

It’s not like it made them that way.

And like Modi, I’d do 1060 with my squat, deadlift and a negative press.[/quote]

Exactly. There’s no problem with crossfit, but when you use one example to tout your system, your making a mistake. There are millions who have gotten bigger and stronger using other methods, but they get labeled as genetic freaks or drug users. Some guy does decent at some strength event while CURRENTLY using crossfit (irrespective of past training) and its all the system!

And to be clear, 1060 wasn’t a typo?