Daniel Cormier KOs Stipe Miocic; Two Division UFC Champ

Could not be happier for DC! And looking forward to the build up to his fight with Brock!

http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/24033720/daniel-cormier-claims-ufc-heavyweight-championship-ko-stipe-miocic

What the hell, Lesnar is a name people know whether you love him or hate him. I am curious, might at some point Jon Jones fight Lesnar? He called Lesnar out in the octagon before getting flagged for PEDs. Is he totally finished?

Yes, to the point, this is a great moment for Cormier. Anderson Silva was called the greatest, but didn’t he get nailed for PEDs twice?

Congratulations to DC! I’m honestly not a big fan of fighters holding two belts because it slows down the title defenses in both divisions. If people want to move up or down, then vacate the title and do so.

That said, incredible accomplishment nonetheless!

Now, I’m probably not the first one to think this, but, does Cormier’s defeat of Stipe (and Stipe’s domination of the HW division up to that point) mean that we can reasonably assume that if Jones ever comes back, they he could fairly easily take either the LHW or HW belt as well (having tooled on Cormier in both of their fights)?

Finally, Lesnar?! Seriously?! That’s an even bigger farce than giving GSP the shot at the MW Belt. At least GSP retired as the WW champ and had an amazing winning record. Brock not only hasn’t fought in years, but wasn’t all dominant even when he was in his “prime”. Why the hell should he get a shot at the title?!

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I think it is partly because Lesnar had a meteoric rise to champion when many insisted he doesn’t belong, and also that he got demolished a couple of times by big names, that people might think, ‘God, does he have a comeback career?’, which question is part of why it would be a draw to see him get demolished again, or what? Win again? He is an icon of scripted wrestling, so not only do those fans want to PAY to see it, everyone who is otherwise will PAY to see
whatever.

I throwback to Zeb saying Dana White is the great manipulator, it doesn’t matter necessarily who ought to be the next fight for Cormier, it is what make the most money. I even wonder if the shove Lesnar gave Cormier in the octagon was scripted.

Meteoric is UFC hype. The guy beat Heath Herring (who was never really anything more than a journeyman/gatekeeper) and got submitted by a Frank Mir. Then got gifted a title shot at a much smaller and old Couture for no reason other than his name. That’s hardly “meteoric”.

I will give him credit for beating Couture, and for defending against Carwin, but nothing else in his fight career was impressive. Dude got straight up mauled by Velasquez and hunted down and given an old school schoolyard beating by Overeem.

I don’t blame Brock for taking a shot, nor Cormier for taking a fight with him if that is what the UFC puts in front of them, but this is yet another example of how little credibility and integrity the UFC has at this point as a legitimate sport/organization. I also have no doubt the shove was scripted or at least encouraged.

The only thing keeping them from going full WWE are the athletic commissions and their substance testing protocols.

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I don’t blame anyone. IMG paid $4 billion for the UFC. The monthly nut on that amount of money isn’t going to get paid without making moves like this when your two biggest draws are under suspension.

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Over paying for the company is no one’s fault but IGM. If the pay per views prior to their acquisition were not making enough money to justify the price they paid to buy the company, then destroying the integrity of the sport and company name in an attempt to make up for that mistake isn’t going to fix that.

Yes, you may get some short term gains, but with orgs like Bellator continually gaining in popularity and notoriety, paying and treating their fighters better, and using a business model that is still based on showcasing exciting fights, but in a more legitimate match-up formula way, they may very well be shooting themselves in the foot and “nuking the fridge” and ultimately destroying their long term success.

I’m guessing the math made sense when you had Rousey, Jones, and McGregor selling 800,000+ PPV buys every time they stepped into the cage. Lesnar is a draw on that same level. Unfortunately he can’t just work the mic and generate interest the way Conor can, so things get a little awkward and weird when he does promos, which is all that spectacle was.

Bellator is great, and I’m a fan, but they’re not even in the same league as the UFC as a promotion (IE business) when 100,000-200,000 PPV buys is considered a success.

But you had to know those fighters wouldn’t be around forever (and if you didn’t, then shame on them for not knowing the nature of the business they were spending Billions of dollars on) and so those PPV sales were not necessarily guaranteed to continue.

And that’s exactly my point, it happens all the time, companies get bought for way more than they are really worth by other companies/individuals who don’t really understand or care about what made those companies successful in the first place. And so, in order to turn a profit they begin to cut corners, water down the product, or inject short term “hype” tactics which result in short term success but ultimately erode the integrity of the company/product, which simply creates a slow but steady decline and “race to the bottom”.

And, while Conor’s PPV sales were mostly due to his mouth, Jones and Roussey were legitimate champions and had all but cleaned out their divisions.

Regarding Bellator, yes, I agree that at present they are the upstarts, but unlike say the NFL which has a government protected monopoly on Professional Football (being a “non profit”), the UFC has no guarantees of remaining the big name in MMA. And if they continue to erode the organizations integrity and core values and if Bellator recognizes that and upholds those values, then the “early responders” and “early Majority” will begin to vacate the UFC and switch their viewership to Bellator. And once they do, the UFC will be relegated to just another choice in “the commodity of MMA” and lose it’s dominant position in the world of MMA and May even find itself the underdog or completely implode.

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Well Brock fought Mark Hunt in 2016 and made relatively easy work of him. Granted it got ruled a No Contents cause he popped hot. Not that I care. They should give them all PEDS in my opinion. Its amusing trying to have ethics in what is essentially human cock fighting. But thats another discussion.

Cain dominated their fight. But the Overeem loss I don’t take too seriously. Lesnar had just come back from his bout with diverticulitis and clearly was not mentally prepared to do battle. If you look at the rankings who do they give the shot to. Derrick Lewis is in the #2 spot and he just had the most boring heavy weight fight against Ngannou. I think DC specifically said he isn’t interested in fighting Curtis Blaydes. Volkov could be interesting. But whatever I would be excited to watch DC beat up Brock make a million dollars and retire. Or he can lose and then Cain can come beat up Brock again.

UFC is a business first and. There would be no fights if they didn’t build hype. Chael Sonnen has been harping on about the logistics of the UFC as a business for a couple weeks now on his pod cast. I agree with Joe Rogan that at this point they should get rid of the belt. They should go back to tournament style I think. But that probably would sell.

Also you dont think Jones vs DC at heavy weight is an entirely different fight than at light heavyweight?

Tournament style would definitely be a move in the right direction. Bellator is doing that and it’s definitely a more legit and exciting format than the hype based “who can shit talk the best” format that the UFC has adopted as of late. The ranking systems also are completely useless if you aren’t going to give the guy who should be getting the next fight a title shot because he put on a “boring performance” or someone else can come along and start some beef with the champ and get people talking.

And I 100% disagree with this whole notion of “hype” being needed. Is the NFL hurting for viewership because of lack of hype? How about MLB? NBA? True that they tend to put big market teams on the National Broadcasts in order to hopefully increase viewership, so in that sense I can see the parallels, but those teams get more viewership due to either being good, or being in large metropolitan areas where interest in the sport is high. They also play a hell of a lot more often than fighters fight, so

I do also hear you about the PED’s. Heck, I think the UFC has been headed down the road towards the WWE for a while now. Just letting the fighters go buck wild with PED use would not only likely allow them to fight more often, but also likely bring in more viewership (a similar phenomenon happened to professional wrestling). Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if they just flat out started scripting fights if they could figure out how to do it without pissing off the bookies.

Of course, all of this would de-legitimize the UFC as an actual sport, but if all you care about is making money/business as it seems like the owners currently do (and it seems like so many Americans have bought into) and things like ethics and values come second to the all mighty dollar and only matter of you think they can make you more money, then why not?

Aren’t most PEDs illegal? Also, I don’t think it is solely up to the UFC when it comes to drugs as there are athletic commissions involved. Even WWE performers have failed WWE testing and been punished.

The UFC has always tried to avoid putting fighters ahead of the UFC. They don’t want to be like boxing which creates superstars who people want to see fight and who can negotiate better terms as far as money. They want people to watch because it is the UFC. Fighters like Conor are rare for the UFC and he is mostly self-promoted. But he is in a position where he holds the cards. He doesn’t need to fight so he can squeeze the UFC for every dollar he can get. The way Dana White has crapped on fighters or rather continues to crap on fighters, like calling them out if they refuse to take a fight last minute, shows that the UFC wants slaves.

Absolutely, the Reebok deal is a perfect example of that. Prior to that deal every fighter wore the brands that sponsored them and showcased the on their banners. Once that Reebok deal went and they could no longer do that, they lost a huge revenue source in the form of sporsorship.

And yeah, technically PED’s are controlled substances (illegal without the proper prescription), but there is a difference between actually openly encouraging or distributing them and quietly encouraging or turning a blind eye to their use like the WWE does.

I knew a guy who was in the WWE for a while and he pretty much confirmed that every single person in the WWE was using PED’s (often times in massive amounts). Maybe some of the women who never really wrestle but are basically just there for sex appeal might not, but all of the actual wrestlers/performers do.

It’s actually pretty well documented that McMahon fairly openly began encouraging PED use Back in the 80’s when he realized that by doing so (along with ramping up the soap opera/drama aspect) he could bring in more viewership (especially women). I could definitely see White and co doing the same thing if they thought they could get it by the athletic commissions.

I don’t think you can compare long established main stream sports to the UFC which has only relatively recently broken into the mainstream. But full disclosure I am no expert on marketing or the history of the NBA, NFL MLB etc etc.

But to elaborate further on the need for hype and the business of the UFC. To paraphrase Uncle Chael’s words. 20% of the fan base, people like you and me will watch the fights regardless we are the “hardcore” fans. The other 80 % which keep the UFC in business need a little bit more to be swayed to buy the PPV and watch. You have to pander to them to certain extent. I am not saying I am happy with it. Although I do love authentic genuine shit talk. Nothing is better watching two people who hate each other try and kill each other in the ring.

As far as PEDs go I actually think they have cleaned up quite a bit. USADA has really been a bitch. It actually phisses me off. Juiced up Vitor Belfort was such a spectacle to watch fight. Uber Reem was also awesome.

I am not so discontented with the UFC that I would call it a joke and stop watching. They put on some great fights. It only gets fucked up when it comes to the belt and big money fights. And whiles thats annoying I still think they do a good enough job that I am not gonna be too bothered by it.