Dangers to Western Civilization

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

Motivation, or the lack of it is what is killing the west

In the UK if you don’t have a job the welfare state helps you out

There was a couple on wifeswap who were both unemployed with 5 kids, and they got over ?37k of benefits each year, now i’m a college professor and I don’t take that much home

So kids at school just think the world owes them a living and they deserve money for doing nothing.

I hear “I deserve” a lot from kids, why you don’t desreve anything.

In countries like Turkey, people work really hard as it’s the only way out of poverty, people in the west have forgotten this.

22

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
The biggest threat to Western Civilization is stupidity.

The biggest problem is apathy, and being so peace-loving so as to allow the cancer of islamo-facsism to fester and grow. People like you and the rest of the West-haters thrive on this stupidity you speak of. [/quote]

Naah, it’s stupid f?cks like you and your precious Dubious that thrive on stupidity. There’s really not very much diffence between you and Osama, is there?

23

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:

It’s even more of a problem for Europe because their welfare state, combined with their declining birth rates, means they will necessarily need to increase their levels of immigration in order for their economies not to plunge into massive recession.

And that’s the key issue – whether western civilization, as such, can survive in a Europe that is increasing the percentage of its voting citizens that will not share the values of western civilization.

vroom wrote:

And you say I want to pontificate about something?

There are some suppositions in here. Maybe if you pontificate enough you’ll see what they are…[/quote]

Yes, there are. That’s why it’s only a summary of the main point of the article – which, of course, is why I posted the link to the article twice.

Your points, however, were only marginally related even to the excerpts.

24

[quote]hedo wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
Well as we have more immigrants from non-western sources their decendents might turn our culture into something decidedly non-western. Im not sure if it will be a good or bad thing. Yes i know that America has been a " land of immigrants " but still, with most of them being white Europeans it hasnt been much of a challenge to assimilate. Mabey it will be if we arent at least a little ehtnocentric.

Most likely, America will have the same problems that France is having, and it will have to look at itself and be more international-friendly. Overall, this is the way a lot of the world is going ( more international ) so its not such a horrible thing IMO.

Might want to brush up on your Sharia law before you say that. Stoning, beheading, amputation, Not exactly PC.

What the author is saying in that many liberal Western European nations the immigration of Muslim workers is growing at such a substantial rate that they will eventually have a majority. Unlike previous waves of immigration they want to maintain their culture, not assimilate. In other words they want you to become a Muslim and live under thier laws, not the other way around. Since the Europeans have a history of appeasment this could come to pass.

[/quote]

It has already happened here in the UK. There are cities and towns where white people are minorities. Our Prime Minister Tony Blair encourages this. Very sinister.

25

[quote]Yes, there are. That’s why it’s only a summary of the main point of the article – which, of course, is why I posted the link to the article twice.

Your points, however, were only marginally related even to the excerpts. [/quote]

Maybe if you keep thinking for a while you will see how they are related. However, maybe not.

26

[quote]vroom wrote:

Yes, and unfortunately the people we elect to represent our interests, are in fact greedy bastards whose opinions reflect the interests of the highest bidder.[/quote]

How very true! Find out who the highest bidder is and you will know who is behind the push for non-white immigration in the West.

Hint: they’ve suffered persecution for the past 5000 years in the relatively homogenous societies they have lived in. They have 300 national groups in the US with a combined lobbying budget of six billion dollars (more than the GNP of half of the countries in the UN).

27

BB

Is western civilisation in its current state worth saving? Seriously what elements are worth saving? The broken cities, the degraded culture, credit card debt?

The people are obviously worth saving (you, me our family and friends) but not much else is.

Perhaps it would be best for the people (especially the young) to start again without the excess debris.

28

I am not trying to be smart. It is just that starting from scratch may be the only solution as reforming suicidal societies may be an impossible endeavour.

29

[quote]wallydubois wrote:
How very true! Find out who the highest bidder is and you will know who is behind the push for non-white immigration in the West.

Hint: they’ve suffered persecution for the past 5000 years in the relatively homogenous societies they have lived in. They have 300 national groups in the US with a combined lobbying budget of six billion dollars (more than the GNP of half of the countries in the UN).
[/quote]

Did you read the blog? These are the people who would be dispalced as a result of the rise of Middle Eastern culture/Decline of Western Culture. And as Steyn points out, while the US is involved here, it’s countries like Spain and Italy that are on the cusp. Are you suggesting that these people who have been persecuted for 5000 yrs. are running the show in Italy?

30

I don’t believe that the facts support the conclusions of the article:

All figures are pulled from the CIA World Factbook (population rates per 1000 pop.)

US
Growth Rate (GR): 0.92%
Birth Rate (BR): 14.14
Death Rate (DR): 8.25
Net Migration Rate (NMR): 3.31

France
GR: 0.37%
BR: 12.15
DR: 9.88
NMR: 0.66

GBR
GR: 0.28%
BR: 10.78
DR: 10.18
NMR: 2.18

Germany
GR: 0%
BR: 8.33
DR: 10.55
NMR: 2.18

Italy
GR: 0.07%
BR: 8.89
DR: 10.3
NMR: 2.07

Spain
GR: 0.15%
BR: 10.1
DR: 9.63
NMR: 0.99

Italy and Germany are the only two Western European countries with higher death rates than birth rates. It is a long known fact that industrialized countries have lower birth rates than developing nations. (The birth rate in the Central African Republic is 35.17. Will we be overrun by Central Africans in the years to come?) These rates equalize as those nations develop. The US has the single highest net migration rate of the countries listed. This article, to me, is a perfect example of fear mongering, the-sky-is-falling nonsense.

Todd

31

Hitler recognized this early on – he favored early marriage and created the Lebensborn program, wherein young women would have children from SS men.
The guy was beyond evil, but also highly intelligient.

Change is always a painful process, but I don’t think a religion created by and for roaming bands of nomads and marauders will survive in the West. The process is slower in calcified societies, like Germany, but soon the Middle Eastern nomad is driving an Escalade while making the rounds of his party stores :slight_smile:

32

[quote]bluey wrote:
BB

Is western civilisation in its current state worth saving? Seriously what elements are worth saving? The broken cities, the degraded culture, credit card debt?

The people are obviously worth saving (you, me our family and friends) but not much else is.

Perhaps it would be best for the people (especially the young) to start again without the excess debris.

[/quote]

This shows how much one can just give up. We live in the best society on earth in the US. We do not need to salvage anything. We need to tighten the screws on the media, TV and things that poison our youth in today’s society like violence and drugs.

Kids grow up way too fast nowadays. I know we love our women enoght to have equall rights, allow people to have whatever religion they want and I have the freedom to protect my family and earn a good living. Find that anywhere else.

33

Yeah, that would be western civilization you are describing… not just a particular country.

34

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

This shows how much one can just give up. We live in the best society on earth in the US. We do not need to salvage anything. We need to tighten the screws on the media, TV and things that poison our youth in today’s society like violence and drugs.

Kids grow up way too fast nowadays. I know we love our women enoght to have equall rights, allow people to have whatever religion they want and I have the freedom to protect my family and earn a good living. Find that anywhere else.

[/quote]

You are quite right. But don’t you think your position is a bit like a Roman circa 400 AD extolling the virtues of his civilisation? In a few years the Roman and his civilisation were all but gone.

35

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
This shows how much one can just give up. We live in the best society on earth in the US. We do not need to salvage anything. We need to tighten the screws on the media, TV and things that poison our youth in today’s society like violence and drugs.

[/quote]

You really think that “tightening the screws on the media” would help?

How would that deal with structural change in the US economy, the decline of christian values, scientific progress that constantly changes society?

And another thing, the US is a pretty violent society compared to most European countries, but compared to most societies, now and in the past, it is a very peaceful one.

Drugs, oh well, if people want to fuck up their lifes they will find a way to do so. Neither drugs nor the dealers are the problem, but an inherent flaw in human beings.

36

[quote]bluey wrote:

You are quite right. But don’t you think your position is a bit like a Roman circa 400 AD extolling the virtues of his civilisation? In a few years the Roman and his civilisation were all but gone.

[/quote]

Maybe your position is more like Rome?s postion during the fall of the republic?

The days of empire building were over but the most important contributions to civilization were yet to come?

The most important contribution to civilization IMHO was roman law, that was only refined into a coherent system after the western roman empire had fallen, under emperor Justinian which led the eastern roman empire.

What if the US shifts money from the military/defense industry to art, science, education?

37

Those far no one has cared for the reasons of different birth rates. As far as i know the US-middle class doesnt have significantly higher birth rates than European countrys. In countrys like Italy and Germany there is hardly anything thats below middle class, at least among non-immigrants. Birth rates are directly related to the average wealth of a country. Thats why african countrys are by far at the top. The US is far ahead of the other western countrys because 1/3 of their population are living in poverty by European standards.

[quote]hedo wrote:

What the author is saying in that many liberal Western European nations the immigration of Muslim workers is growing at such a substantial rate that they will eventually have a majority. Unlike previous waves of immigration they want to maintain their culture, not assimilate. In other words they want you to become a Muslim and live under thier laws, not the other way around. Since the Europeans have a history of appeasment this could come to pass.

[/quote]

History of appeasment lol, i see youve studied extensively European history and the reasons for the 1930’s events. Um, no. People like you are the reason some Europeans think most Bush-voters are uneducated fools whove a shootgun under their bed and never been to another country. Same for rainjack.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

The biggest problem is apathy, and being so peace-loving so as to allow the cancer of islamo-facsism to fester and grow. People like you and the rest of the West-haters thrive on this stupidity you speak of. [/quote]

How many Muslims do you know? In Germany i guess 50% percent of people in their teens or early twenties are either 2.generation Turkish or 1.generation Russian immigrants. And guess what, the vast majority of them are living according to the western culture and are enjoying the good sides of it. In fact theyre even nicer people. You can never judge people from what youve read or because some individuals of them do are a*******.

38

[quote]Ken Kaniff wrote:
Those far no one has cared for the reasons of different birth rates. As far as i know the US-middle class doesnt have significantly higher birth rates than European countrys. In countrys like Italy and Germany there is hardly anything thats below middle class, at least among non-immigrants. Birth rates are directly related to the average wealth of a country. Thats why african countrys are by far at the top. The US is far ahead of the other western countrys because 1/3 of their population are living in poverty by European standards.

hedo wrote:

What the author is saying in that many liberal Western European nations the immigration of Muslim workers is growing at such a substantial rate that they will eventually have a majority. Unlike previous waves of immigration they want to maintain their culture, not assimilate. In other words they want you to become a Muslim and live under thier laws, not the other way around. Since the Europeans have a history of appeasment this could come to pass.

History of appeasment lol, i see youve studied extensively European history and the reasons for the 1930’s events. Um, no. People like you are the reason some Europeans think most Bush-voters are uneducated fools whove a shootgun under their bed and never been to another country. Same for rainjack.

rainjack wrote:

The biggest problem is apathy, and being so peace-loving so as to allow the cancer of islamo-facsism to fester and grow. People like you and the rest of the West-haters thrive on this stupidity you speak of.

How many Muslims do you know? In Germany i guess 50% percent of people in their teens or early twenties are either 2.generation Turkish or 1.generation Russian immigrants. And guess what, the vast majority of them are living according to the western culture and are enjoying the good sides of it. In fact theyre even nicer people. You can never judge people from what youve read or because some individuals of them do are a*******.

[/quote]

We understand the birthrates and the reasons. It appears you do not. Perhaps you can tell us why birthrate is related to wealth?

Hedo made an interesting point that Europe has had a recent history of appeasment from Hitler to Hussien. Perhaps you could use your vaunted European education and tell us why he was wrong instead of resorting to silly insults?

We are not worried about the westernized muslims. We embrace them in our society. We worry about the Islamic extremists that want to take civilization back a few hundred years. It appears you need to work on your reading comprehension.

39

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Ken Kaniff wrote:
Those far no one has cared for the reasons of different birth rates. As far as i know the US-middle class doesnt have significantly higher birth rates than European countrys. In countrys like Italy and Germany there is hardly anything thats below middle class, at least among non-immigrants. Birth rates are directly related to the average wealth of a country. Thats why african countrys are by far at the top. The US is far ahead of the other western countrys because 1/3 of their population are living in poverty by European standards.

hedo wrote:

What the author is saying in that many liberal Western European nations the immigration of Muslim workers is growing at such a substantial rate that they will eventually have a majority. Unlike previous waves of immigration they want to maintain their culture, not assimilate. In other words they want you to become a Muslim and live under thier laws, not the other way around. Since the Europeans have a history of appeasment this could come to pass.

History of appeasment lol, i see youve studied extensively European history and the reasons for the 1930’s events. Um, no. People like you are the reason some Europeans think most Bush-voters are uneducated fools whove a shootgun under their bed and never been to another country. Same for rainjack.

rainjack wrote:

The biggest problem is apathy, and being so peace-loving so as to allow the cancer of islamo-facsism to fester and grow. People like you and the rest of the West-haters thrive on this stupidity you speak of.

How many Muslims do you know? In Germany i guess 50% percent of people in their teens or early twenties are either 2.generation Turkish or 1.generation Russian immigrants. And guess what, the vast majority of them are living according to the western culture and are enjoying the good sides of it. In fact theyre even nicer people. You can never judge people from what youve read or because some individuals of them do are a*******.

We understand the birthrates and the reasons. It appears you do not. Perhaps you can tell us why birthrate is related to wealth?

Hedo made an interesting point that Europe has had a recent history of appeasment from Hitler to Hussien. Perhaps you could use your vaunted European education and tell us why he was wrong instead of resorting to silly insults?

We are not worried about the westernized muslims. We embrace them in our society. We worry about the Islamic extremists that want to take civilization back a few hundred years. It appears you need to work on your reading comprehension.[/quote]

His spelling could use a little work too.

You have to see the humor in someone trying to brag about intellectual superiority and presenting that bit of drivel as an example…too funny.

Ken, I have seen plenty of the world, the good parts and the bad. You’ll have to actually comment on the topic to stir a debate with me…try again.

40

[quote]orion wrote:
bluey wrote:

You are quite right. But don’t you think your position is a bit like a Roman circa 400 AD extolling the virtues of his civilisation? In a few years the Roman and his civilisation were all but gone.

Maybe your position is more like Rome?s postion during the fall of the republic?

The days of empire building were over but the most important contributions to civilization were yet to come?

The most important contribution to civilization IMHO was roman law, that was only refined into a coherent system after the western roman empire had fallen, under emperor Justinian which led the eastern roman empire.

What if the US shifts money from the military/defense industry to art, science, education?[/quote]

We’d become a buch of overthinking pussies. That’s what would happen if a shift like that happened. Throw out the “Welcome Invasion” mat. We’d maybe have to call in France to bail us out.