T Nation

Dangers of Soy Article on Yahoo!


It's about time!



Soy isn't a magic bullet, but it can be a valuable contributor to a heart-healthy diet," said Jo Ann Carson, a professor of clinical nutrition at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas who was not part of the panel.

It's important not to think about foods in black-and-white terms, said Dr. Michael Lim, director of the cardiac catheterization lab at Saint Louis University School of Medicine.

"There's no quick fix," he said. "Our bad cholesterol numbers would certainly get worse if instead of eating tofu burgers we went out and had hamburgers each night of the week."

if you believe the hype, you deserve to be disappointed.


Dammit that's still too positive for my liking!!


LOL. Tofu burgers? Does his statement mean that ground beef has been proven to cause high cholesterol levels? I mean, that is what is in hamburgers, right? Or are we just talking about hamburgers from certain fast food places? What if I make it at home and use lean beef? Blanket statements are comfy.


Actually there may be no heart benefits after all...


Apparently Science has a different point of view on this subject.

They soy debate has been going on for ages and no one on both sides of the arguement has yet provided convincing proof to back up their statements.

Just to balance things out a bit, personally I believe as long as you are not consuming a ridiculous amount of soy, it should be fine.

Older studies point out soy to be inferior then caesin. However, recent studies shows exactly the opposite.

(1) Hormonal effects of soy in premenopausal women and men.

Kurzer MS.

Department of Food Science and Nutrition, University of Minnesota, St. Paul, MN 55108, USA. mkurzer@umn.edu

Over the past few years, there has been increasing interest in the possible hormonal effects of soy and soy isoflavone consumption in both women and men. Soy consumption has been suggested to exert potentially cancer-preventive effects in premenopausal women, such as increased menstrual cycle length and sex hormone-binding globulin levels and decreased estrogen levels. There has been some concern that consumption of phytoestrogens might exert adverse effects on men's fertility, such as lowered testosterone levels and semen quality.

The studies in women have provided modest support for beneficial effects. One cross-sectional study showed serum estrogens to be inversely associated with soy intake. Seven soy intervention studies controlled for phase of menstrual cycle. These studies provided 32-200 mg/d of isoflavones and generally showed decreased midcycle plasma gonadotropins and trends toward increased menstrual cycle length and decreased blood concentrations of estradiol, progesterone and sex hormone-binding globulin.

A few studies also showed decreased urinary estrogens and increased ratios of urinary 2-(OH) to 16alpha-(OH) and 2-(OH) to 4-(OH) estrogens. Soy and isoflavone consumption does not seem to affect the endometrium in premenopausal women, although there have been weak estrogenic effects reported in the breast. Thus, studies in women have mostly been consistent with beneficial effects, although the magnitude of the effects is quite small and of uncertain significance. Only three intervention studies reported hormonal effects of soy isoflavones in men.

These recent studies in men consuming soyfoods or supplements containing 40--70 mg/d of soy isoflavones showed few effects on plasma hormones or semen quality. These data do not support concerns about effects on reproductive hormones and semen quality.

(2) Effect of soymilk consumption on serum estrogen and androgen concentrations in Japanese men.

Nagata C, Takatsuka N, Shimizu H, Hayashi H, Akamatsu T, Murase K.

Department of Public Health, Gifu University School of Medicine, Japan.

Soy consumption has been associated with a reduced risk of prostate cancer. The mechanism for this association may involve the effect of soy on the endocrine system. We conducted a randomized dietary intervention study to determine the effects of soy consumption on serum levels of steroid hormones in men. Thirty-five men were randomly assigned to either a soymilk-supplemented group or a control group.

The men in the soy-supplemented group were asked to consume 400 ml of soymilk daily for 8 weeks. The men in the control group maintained their usual diet. Blood samples were obtained just before the initiation of the dietary period and thereafter every two weeks for 12 weeks. Changes in hormone concentrations were analyzed and compared between the two groups using the mixed linear regression model against weeks from the start of the dietary period.

The mean (SD) soymilk intake estimated from dietary records during the dietary study period was 342.9 (SD, 74.2) ml in the soymilk-supplemented group. There was a significant difference between the two groups in terms of changes in serum estrone concentrations, which tended to decrease in the soy-supplemented group and increase in the control group over time. None of the other hormones measured (estradiol, total and free-testosterone, or sex hormone-binding globulin) showed any statistical difference between the two groups in terms of patterns of change. The results of the study indicate that soymilk consumption may modify circulating estrone concentrations in men.

Effect of different dietary protein composition on skeletal muscle atrophy by suspension hypokinesia/hypodynamia in rats.

Tada O, Yokogoshi H.

Laboratory of Nutritional Biochemistry, Graduate School of Nutritional and Environmental Sciences, The University of Shizuoka, Japan.

Under microgravity conditions similar to those in space, it is known that various nutritional and physiological changes in the body are induced. Especially in the aspect of nutrition, muscle atrophy is a characteristic phenomenon accompanying weightlessness. This study was conducted to investigate the ameliorated effect of muscle atrophy caused by suspension hypokinesia by using the soy protein isolate (SPI) as the protein source in comparison with casein.

Male Wistar strain rats (8 wk old) were divided into two groups, each suspended with a suspension harness, and fed on a 20% SPI diet or a 20% casein diet for 10 d. The body weights of the suspended rats fed casein or SPI decreased similarly. The weight of the gastrocnemius and soleus muscle were decreased by suspension hypokinesia; however, the degree of the decrease of the muscle weights, especially soleus muscles, of rats fed the SPI diet was smaller than that of rats fed the casein diet. Serum Ntau-methylhistidine concentration was significantly lower in rats fed the SPI diet than in rats fed the casein diet.

Similarly, the activities of muscle protein-degrading enzymes such as calpain and proteasome were significantly lower in rats fed the SPI diet than in rats fed the casein diet. Cathepsin B+L activities were not affected by the SPI or the casein diet. Therefore it is suggested that SPI caused a reduction of the proteolysis of myofibrillar protein in skeletal muscles through a reduction of calpain and proteasome activities, in consequence to ameliorate the muscle atrophy.


Effect of protein source on resistive-training-induced changes in body composition and muscle size in older men.

Haub MD, Wells AM, Tarnopolsky MA, Campbell WW.

Department of Human Nutrition, Kansas State University, Manhattan, KS 66506, USA. haub@humec.ksu.edu

BACKGROUND: Aging is associated with reductions in muscle mass and strength, but nutrition and exercise interventions can delay this progression and enhance the quality of life. OBJECTIVE: We examined whether the predominant source of protein consumed by older men influenced measures of muscle size and strength, body composition, resting energy expenditure, and skeletal muscle creatine concentrations in response to 12 wk of resistive training.

DESIGN: After consuming a lactoovovegetarian (LOV) diet for 2 wk, 21 men aged 65 +/- 5 y were randomly assigned to either consume a beef-containing (BC) diet (n = 10) or to continue the LOV diet (n = 11) throughout resistive training. The BC diet included 0.6 g protein. kg(-1). d(-1) from beef and the LOV diet included 0.6 g protein. kg(-1). d(-1) from textured vegetable protein (soy) sources. The remaining protein in the diets came from self-selected LOV sources.

RESULTS: The mean total protein intake for both groups ranged from 1.03 to 1.17 g. kg(-1). d(-1) during the intervention. Men in both groups had improvements (14-38%) in maximal dynamic strength of all the muscle groups trained with no significant difference between groups. With resistive training, cross-sectional muscle area of the vastus lateralis increased in both groups (4.2 +/- 3.0% and 6.0 +/- 2.6% for the LOV and BC groups, respectively) with no significant difference between groups.

Body composition, resting energy expenditure, and concentrations of muscle creatine, phosphocreatine, and total creatine did not differ significantly between groups or change over time. CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that increases in muscle strength and size were not influenced by the predominant source of protein consumed by older men with adequate total protein intake.


Damn,people are going on about soy like they did when those low-fat fad diets where out. I think of things that are much worse for you than cheap processed soy.


TC, Chris Shugart, and T-Nation.com believe that soy protein is poison:



Bottom line:
Raw soy bean fibers (that contain soy protein) were thrown away for many years as waste from pressing 'vegetable oil' (soy oil) from soy beans.

The HUGH farming industry lead by ADM www.admworld.com wanted to maximize profit and sell this raw soy protein to Americans. ADM lobbied congress and got their wish to promote soy as a healing product.

...and you wonder why we have to keep our eyes on politicians and corporations...


Unfortunately the newest scientific Literature says otherwise.

Asians has also been consuming soy for thousands of years .

You would think that if Soy was so estrogenic, it would give Asian Women massive boobs make all Asian Men impotent.



You know what?Most asian women are flat.No really.Think about it.I don't see many asian women that have huge boobs,unless they bought new ones.So,I guess the whole thing about soy being estrogenic may be wrong.


They (asians) only use small amounts of fermented soy (miso, tempeh, natto etc). They don't chug gallons of soy milk every day. Just to clarify.


unless you go with dong-size stereotypes. that one doesn't look so good in the asian man's favor nor for soy.

don't eat soy and avoid irreversable shrinky-dink.


Until very recently, most Chinese drank Soy Milk in the morning instead of Milk.

Also did you forget Tofu?

Asians female breast size in fact has rised quite a lot in recent years due to adopting a more western diet.


"Institute of Nutrition and Food Safety, Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, 29 Nanwei Road, Beijing,100050, China.

This study evaluated the intake of soy foods and soy isoflavones by rural adult women and potential determinant factors. Soy food consumption and information on age, education and medical history were collected on 1,188 subjects in Gansu Province and Hebei Province, China using a food frequency questionnaire to gather data on food intake over the past year. Weight and height were simultaneously measured. The results showed that 1139 (95.9%) rural women consumed soy foods in the past year. The average intake of soy foods and isoflavones was 38.7 +/- 58.2 (median = 23.5) g/d and 17.7 +/- 26.6 (median= 8.9) mg/d, respectively. Tofu accounted for the most contribution to their intake. The soy isoflavone intake ranged between 0-35 mg/day in 89.2% of subjects. Gansu women had higher intakes of soy foods and isoflavones than Henbei women (P< 0.05). Women aged 41-50 years consumed less soy foods and isoflavones than the 20-30-year olds and 31-40 year olds(P < 0.05). The intake of soy foods (P< 0.01) and isoflavones (P< 0.01) by women who experienced secondary education or above was significantly higher than illiterate women. Women without a medical history had a higher soy isoflavone intake than women with a medical history, but the difference was not statistically significant. These results suggest that the intake of soy isoflavones by Chinese rural adult women was much higher than women in Western countries."


Instead Asians have been known through history to be able to leap high into the air, dodge bullets, run on water, leap from rooftop to rooftop, have male pouches when they get older, make metal objects bend when waving them around, live for over hundreds of years, use up surplus fertilizer for food, have excellent dental work, sing horribly (in general- Yoko, Hung, etc), and take half your life energy/ch'i when they just wave a finger at you.

Can thousands or millions of a continent's inhabitants be wrong? Well there was the US election of 2004, and now the Canadian election...Yes, it is very possible.


And you are a freakin moron.

Unless you have extensive experience with Asian Penis or have done a massive, please refrain from making stereotypical comments.

Also, since when is low test associated with 'shirnky-dick'. Even people who just came off a heavy steroid cycle don't a shrunken dick (instead balls).



Chuck Norris created Asian People because they are cute and don't take much space.


Lol, someone either has no sense of humour or a big old case of Small Penis Syndrome (SPS).


or maybe someone is asian


It is telling that the older the woman the less they consumed soy, probably because the huge amounts of soy used today wasn't the norm during their childhood. I'm well aware soy milk has been available since the 3rd century ad (more or less) and tofu is a big part of the soy consumed, but was it that way for thousands of years as you said, that I would like to question.

Here is what I found while searching for info:
(how much soy did asians consume?)
"In short, not that much, and contrary to what the industry may claim soy has never been a staple in Asia. A study of the history of soy use in Asia shows that it was used by the poor during times of extreme food shortage, and only then the soybeans were carefully prepared (e.g. by lengthy fermentation) to destroy the soy toxins. Yes, the Asians understood soy alright!

Many vegetarians in the USA, and Europe and Australasia would think nothing of consuming 8 ounces (about 220 grams) of tofu and a couple of glasses of soy milk per day, two or three times a week. But this is well in excess of what Asians typically consume; they generally use small portions of soy to complement their meal. It should also be noted that soy is not the main source of dietary protein and that a regime of calcium-set tofu and soy milk bears little resemblance to the soy consumed traditionally in Asia.

Perhaps the best survey of what types/quantities of soy eaten in Asia comes from data from a validated, semiquantitative food frequency questionnaire that surveyed 1242 men and 3596 women who participated in an annual health check-up program in Takayama City, Japan. This survey identified that the soy products consumed were tofu (plain, fried, deep-fried, or dried), miso, fermented soybeans, soy milk, and boiled soybeans. The estimated amount of soy protein consumed from these sources was 8.00 ? 4.95 g/day for men and 6.88 ? 4.06 g/day for women (Nagata C, Takatsuka N, Kurisu Y, Shimizu H; J Nutr 1998, 128:209-13).

According to KC Chang, editor of Food in Chinese Culture, the total caloric intake due to soy in the Chinese diet in the 1930's was only 1.5%, compared with 65% for pork.

For more information on the traditional use of soy products contact the Weston A Price Foundation."


So shall I mark you down for all of the above? :slight_smile: