T Nation

damn fat


hey guys. im 22 and recently got home from the good old army. i come from a family with extreme obiesity. the only reason i made it in the army was because my neck and waist were in proportion by army standards (there a joke). about 18 months ago i said im not gonna live like my relatives. i went on a strict diet and working out at night along with the pt session in the morn. im 5 foot 11 and weighed 273 pounds. i now weigh 224. i dont know what my bf was but it was huge. im out of the army now and did a 3 week cycle of dbol. i loved the gains i got and for the most part ive kept 95 percent of them(been off for a lil over a month). heres my prob: i cant get rid of my fucking love handles. its like my fat loss has hit a platoe. so i ordered a 9 week cycle of Clenbuterol from pharmanabolics and was wondering how well this is going to work for me. heres my other prob. even though ive lost almost 50 pounds, its hard for me to see the loss in my stomach and side areas. any tips for my weight loss and comments about pharmanabolics would be highly appreciated.


For anyone to help you, we need to know more.

What is your diet/training/ supplementation now?

What are your goals with training?

What is your physical fitness level at?


as for diet this is a typical day of eating:

Breakfast: Bowl of either oatmeal or shredded wheat with a myoplex lite shake.

Snack: Piece of Beef or Venicen Jerkey

Lunch: Pork Chop or Ground Turkey Burger with a vegi like peas and carrots or brussel sprouts along with another myoplex lite shake.

Snack: Apple or Celery with peanut butter

Dinner: 8 ouce piece of red meat or chicken breast with a side of lipton noodles (made with skim milk and no butter) and another side of veggis.

i very rarely get munchies after dinner time. if i do ill eat a handfull of snackwell pretzels and thats does me fine.

as for training i work chest monday (work with 295 3 sets 6-8 reps) cardio on an eliptical ryder for 45 mins tues,
bicepts and tricepts wed (curl using 60 lb barbells in each time 3 sets of 6-8),
wed rest, thursday shoulders and back, friday is another cardio day on the eliptical rider, sat legs (have to be cautious because of 4, yes 4 prior knee surgeries) and sunday is a rest day but usualy take a good 45 min walk with the dog.

i belive my physical fitness level is pretty good. last week i gave myself a standard army pt test and this is how i did.
13:24 on my 2 mile run
91 pushups in 2 mins
87 situps in two mins

my neck measures at 18 inches and my waist is 36

as for goals. in all honesty just dont wanna be the guy in the pool with a tshirt on. i wanna be able to walk down the beach and have women look and say damn hes pretty big, and for my body to inspire my family members. i wanna fell good about myself.

i hope this is enough info for you guys and if you need more just let me know, i realy appreciate all of your comments and help


I think you do too much cardio...
Are you training for a marathon??

How many kcals is that daily?

What are the macronutrient breakdowns (carbs/fats/proteins)?

Just from glancing, I'd say you should add more healthy fats (flax, fish).

It really doesn't look like you are eating that much food - my girlfriend eats more when she's training! The snacks are tiny, when really you should be having 6-8 equal sized meals throughout the day.

What is your pre/post workout nutrition?

Do you take any supplementS?


how many cals and macronutrient breakdowns? i have no idea. this is just a diet that i was told to follow by an army physician when i went for weight counceling.

you say what im eating isnt enough but honestly im full when im done with my meals. trust me im not like anerexic or anythig, i love food and i get cravings for shity junk all the time.

as far a suppliments i was taking the new hydroxy cut which sucks balls and i just started to take hot rox 2 days ago.

id like to make a correction to my workout schedual.
like i said before chest on monday, tuesday is cardio/rest day, wed bi's and tri's, thursday shoulders and back, friday some more cardio, sat legs, and sunday rest day but i walk the dog for a good 45 mins. i know it sounds like alot of cardio but its just out of habbit. we ran and did cardio every other day while i was in the army and it just kinda stuck with me.

Archaic thank you for all of your patience with me. i appreciate it alot. all my gym buddies (who are fucking huge and look "not human" dont talk about any of this. they just tell me shit like "you should take these pills" or "you should jack this"


archaic what would you say about the Clenbuterol from pharmanabolics??


Hey fredwinky, its ALL DIET. If you want to be lean, you're going to have to get a more conscious understanding of the proteins, fats, and especially carbs that you are eating. you're what, 225 and want to get ripped, eat 40-60 grams of protein or so with every meal, 6 times per day. on your cardio days and days off, eat about 20-30 grams of healthy fats with every meal too. as for carbs, stick to vegetables and green leafies (no peas, corn or carrots)
and thats it- try to stay under 50 grams carbs. this will turn your body into a fat burning machine. on your weight training days, 4 meals should be of the protein and fat only variety, and 2 will be protein and carbs only (no fat.) The first protein and carb (PC) meal will be a 50/50 combo of whey and dextrose/maltodextrin/glucose that you will drink throughout your workout. Then for you're second PC meal you will stuff your face with "whole food" carbs and proteins for the 1 hour following your workout. this will end up being probably 1000 calories or so for your weight, just a guess. These are the general guidelines for maintaining or gaining muscle and losing fat. Start reading up on pre and post workout nutrition on this site. Do some research if you really want to get lean and aren't just talking. Use the search button on the left of the screen. i'd be glad to help with details if you like:)


thanks pete your the man. ill keep in touch and try to post a few pics tonight or tomorow



Dude that was some great advice... Strong work.



I couldn't have said it better...

fred, you should read all the diets posted on this site.

I think you should also 'get out of the habit' of such excessive cardio if you're trying to get big and ripped. I'd recommend 1-2 HIIT sessions a week, with 4 weight sessions not lasting more than 1 hour each.

I don't know about the brands of clen. But I do know that it's not a magic pill, and unless you revamp your diet and training it will NOT help you attain your goal.

My final recommendation will be to please, please learn about pre/post exercise nutrition. You will get such gains from implementing this!


Oh, and BTW, your stomach's hunger is a survival reflex, nothing more. You really never should be hungry, there should always be food in your gut (eat every 1-2 hours).

You need to eat, eat, eat AS MUCH lean meat, and vegetables as you can. One trick I use is to thaw 8 chicken breasts the night before, cook them up, and store in the fridge. That is my 'quota' for the next day. I eat all the chicken the next day (~160grams protein). And skip carb-containing sauces. It may get a little boring, but it works!

PS, I work at a nutrition store and I can tell you what I tell all my customers, Myoplex lite is a rip. The 'lite' means that it has half the protein, all the carbs, and all the fat of the regular myoplex.... And protein is the good part! We want the extra protein! F*CK YOU EAS!!! DIE SLOW!!!

Sorry, I got carried away.


Archaic, Pete man. you guys are awsome. ive learned more from you guys in two days than what ive learned in 18 months between army physicians and gym buddies. Thank you!

what is the best prtein shake in your opinions. i want something with alot of protein but something that isnt gonna make me gag when i taste andd swallow it.


Fredwinky, i wish you all the best. You're on the right track being on this forum with such knowledgeable people to help you. Whey protein is very handy for shakes, i use designer right now- its quite pure (17.5g pro/1.5g carb/1.5g fat per scoop and tastes good for all 3 flavours. I get the 5 pounder for 49 bucks canadian which is about 50 cents american i think;)
buy yourself a bag of psyllium husk powder at the health food store for like 5 bucks and add a tablespoon to each shake you have. I personally don't count the calories in it, its just a fibre that keeps you regular... example shake would be 2 scoops protein, 1 tbs NATURAL peanut butter, 1/3 cup 0.4% curd, and 1 tbs flax oil. that'll give you about 55g pro/24g fat/6g carbs and a healthy 15g or so of fibre. if you really want to get healthy and do what i do: add a couple cups of raw spinache too, it'll turn the sjake green but you won't taste it i promise and its a great way to get your veggies in... anything else i would be glad to help, as i grew up overweight and had to get lean on my own by trial and error... take care,


The best whey isolate on the market is Isopro Ultra Low Carb, bar none. Great post workout.

Otherwise, I'd recommend you stick to slower digesting proteins like casein (from dry curd cottage cheese) for meals. The downside to Whey is it's absorbed too rapidly, and will be converted into blood sugar by the liver if you have too much at once. It's a perfect choice post workout, but not ideal as a stand alone meal. If you are drinking whey, sip your shakes slowly...

For MRP powders, I kinda like GNC Elite Mega MRP... Very close to Myoplex but cheaper. Biotest Grow! and PVL Stacker are good for slow digesting powder. But Ultimatly, you will get more out of real food than powders, so bear that in mind..

Good luck fred, just keep learning and implementing new ideas and you'll do fine!


I'll tell ya, I went from 40% bf to now 10% and it took a whole year. Low carbs, no alcohol, lift like a MF and do cardio 5 days a week before you eat. I didn't notice much fat coming off my midsection either but I did notice my pants didn't fit anymore. I am now in 34" waist from 40" I am 5'11" 195, 10% bf now and from 14% to 11 or 12 is when I really could see every lb coming off. Now I can see 197 looks much different than 194. Give it time and don't be impatient. 1-2 lb's per week should be the goal so you could keep the d'bol gains. Clen or eca will help but not much if it isn't accompanied by a soun and clean diet. Remember cardio BEFORE you eat. You still have a couple months before tanning season, you can easily take off another 10-15 lbs or more by then.


all of you guys are great! thank you so much for your help and ill keep posting my proggress as i go along!

Sappers Foreward,
Climb To Glory!


oh, Protein shakes:

2 scoops Isopure 0 carb Strawberry
3 scoops GNC Vanilla (100% Whey)
(I add this kind because it has a good amino profile and Isopure doesn't + it tastes really good)
2 tbsp Flax seed oil
2 tsp l-argenine (3 gms)
4 tsp Orange flavor fiber powder 20 gms
10 gms GNC fruit punch creatine

5 cups of water.

This gives 900 cals 33 gms fat 12 gms carbs and 110 gms protein --20 gms fiber--and o-3,6,9 fatty acids. This one tastes so damn good I could drink it all at once but I try to make it last all day and drink about half post workout. Sometimes I mix in a few eggs to change up the proteins a bit.