T Nation

Damaged Sexual Health from Deca/Tren Use

Hi everybody,

I’m new to this forum although I have been peeking around for some time. There is a lot of great information and knowledge on this board!

Now, I want to briefly explain my situation, what caused it, and what I’m trying to accomplish.

I was a moderately serious bodybuilder for quite some time and I decided to start enhancing with PEDs at age 22 (I am currently 25). It started with a 12 week cycle of test. Then pct and some time off (about 3 months). Then went on another cycle of test only but that was dragged out from may to about October, so about 6 months. Then another 3 or so months off. I did all this without any major incident. Everything was good on cycle and off cycle I was a little down but nothing major. Now this is where it got tricky for me. I began to prep for a show and I decided to run test and deca. Also threw in some masteron and anadrol but the key here is the deca. Deca is where my ED started to act up. I started to have deca dick. I had viagra on hand so I was managing it pretty easily. Half a viagra and I was good to go. I was having regular sex with an ex girlfriend and everything was fine as long as I took a little viagra.

Finally I discontinued deca and other compounds except test. I was at trt dose for about a month or two and went back to higher dose test and threw some tren ace in there. At this time, I was done with that girl I was seeing and I met another girl which I started dating. Again, sex life was great. I even went off cycle and of course I suffered in pct but I was able to use viagra and have sex. I didn’t have huge sex drive but it was enough to do it every couple of days and the viagra would still work. Not the best erections ever but whatever. The job was done. Spent a few months off and went back on. This time test and tren enth. This cycle made me have an insane sex drive. I couldn’t control it. We were having sex non stop. I would use just a tiny little bit of cialis and it was more than enough. Ran that for a few months and went down to trt dose. Still on trt dose I had good sex drive. Not as pronounced but I did get very horny. Then my girl got a job half way across the country and a small fight, she took off without me. I was pretty devastated and went from cruise dose to taking some tren ace. This was supposed to be my last run and I was planning on quitting for good. But this is where shit hit the fan. During this cycle of tren, I started to have serious ED where even with viagra I couldn’t do anything. I still had a little bit of drive but I couldn’t get it up like normal. I dropped the tren and while on test, I basically had full ED. Viagra couldn’t even help. So I PCTd off with a solid pct and it wasn’t so bad. I definitely wasn’t good but I did have sex with a girl a few times during that pct. There was some sex drive and I did wake up horny here and there with a boner. So I figured everything was going to turn out fine, just keep on waiting and eventually I’m time it will slowly come back. Turns out, a few weeks after discontinuing clomid and nolvadex, I hit a wall. Zero libido, total ED. At this point, even with two viagras and the hottest girl in the world, I could not get it up. Freaked out a little and I started taking clomid again with no real improvement.

I discontinued the clomid and as it was wearing off, I did feel a slight spike in sex drive and a few random semi boners. I had also gotten myself some pharmaceutical grade triptorelin which I was so excited and thought it would fix my issues. I took it and while it did raise my test and my testicles dropped real low, it did not aid in sexual function.

Now here is where I figured out that this is much more than just a hpta issue. There is some other mechanism at play that is causing this and I’m convinced that it’s from using compounds like deca and tren.

I was off for about 6 months and didn’t see any improvement whatsoever to my sexual health. It got worse if anything. This was decvastating and it was the toughest 6 months of my life. Here’s where I decided to do something a little drastic. I figured, maybe If I run some test and taper off, with a strong PCT involving triptorelin, maybe it will rewire some things in my brain. So I started taking test by blasting 1000mg for the first two weeks. Then went down to 500mgs a week which is where I’m at today. I’m about 5 weeks into this and I’m moving down to trt dose this week.

Now, when I started this run, I got immediate sex drive and erections for the first couple weeks. It slowed down a bit but I was definitely driven. Then this past week I hit a wall and I have absolutely nothing. I did have a minor procedure done on my nose last week and they did put me out cold. I’m still recovering, in a bit of pain and not sleeping/breathing too well. I think this might be contributing to my loss in libido but right now nothing can excite me.

So my goal now is, to come off the test with a solid pct and hopefully make improvement with my sexual health. I’ve been reading on this forum some very knowledgeable members speaking of adrenal insufficiency being a prime suspect for these 19nor related symptoms. It has changed the way I look at my recovery. And I’d like for anyone that has good advice on how I can repair my adrenal system to please chime in. I read a comment by PhysioLojik about putting his patients on hydrocortisone and replacement test dose and their symptoms going away. He didn’t elaborate much on that but it started my research into cortisol, progesterone and pregnelone. I read about progesterone cream and how low progesterone causes ED and how a lot of men that take a small amount of progesterone experience really good results with libido. Also raising progesterone will raise cortisol from my understanding. So I’m getting some progesterone cream tomorrow and I’m going to being applying about 10mg daily.

The other angle I want to tackle this is through dopamine receptor sensitization. I believe this is a major cause of low libido. It’s almost like my brain doesn’t feel sexual pleasure because it’s used to being on tren where sexual pleasure was multiplied by ten. So I’m going to be staying away from porn completely (not that I have an issue) and keeping away from masturbation to try and reboot. Also I ordered some choline CDP and Sulbutiamine which I will take based on some research I’ve done. Seems like a lot of men have felt remarkable increases in libido with Sulbutiamine and it’s believed to sensitize dopamine receptors.

Overall, I’m praying that with time I will recover. I don’t expect a full 100% recovery, at this point I don’t think I will ever achieve that, but if I can get to a point where I can have a somewhat normal
Sex life with the use of PDE5 inhibitors, I’ll take it. I pretty much stopped talking to girls or even thinking about pursuing any relationships or anything like that. I’ve been feeling very hopeless and like this will never get better. Im mad at myself for doing this to my body and I just want to get out of this nightmare. I apologize for the sob story but any words of hope, any personal success stories and any good medical advice I can receive would be so greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

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During these various cycles with deca and/or tren did you ever use caber? Did you have blood work that indicated high e2 and/or high prolactin? I don’t have the time right this second to fully digest everything you wrote, but I’m wondering if the answer is going to be somewhere in the blood work, in which case you’ll be able to have some good data to go on before you set off on a course to causing your issues.

Yes I used caber every time. Also used AI and hcg. Ive gotten several bloodworks done in the past 8 months. Nothing out of the expected. My recent bloodwork is pretty much perfect. Prolactin is good, estrogen is good.

I like you man…your crazy but I like you… Lets get big and juicy then pool party in Vegas with my friend molly and hottest hookers on the strip…We might die but Im pretty sure I can help with the boner stuff

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First off thanks for taking the time to write this. The More I learn the more I see that this is almost always a dopamine issue. You will be ok. This is know. You’re in the right place.

@russpow

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Hey buddy, was hoping to hear from you! Thank you for the encouragement.

I think I have a good plan set in place. I agree that it is most likely a dopamine issue.

I’m going to start taking 2g of vitamin c daily and using vitamin B5.

I started progesterone cream today. I did half a pump which is about 10mg. I think I will lower it to less than that but I’m curious to see if that will make any improvement.

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You’re absolutely on the right track man !

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I forget where I read this, but an old school bodybuilder once remarked that back in the days of legit parabolan you never heard of guys having issues - no ED, no numbness or noodle halfway through the deed, nothing. He theorized it was either something in the UGL production methods, something to do with the esters used now (parabolan was hexahydrobenzylcarbonate, not sure where that falls on the HL time scale), or guys taking way too much. I want to say they weren’t using caber back then either.

Other possibility is guys just didn’t talk about it.

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I’ve heard similar things about gear from back in the day. They say it was much higher quality.

I actually should have never used caber. My prolactin never rose and low dose caber would nuke my prolactin to undetectable levels. Never experienced any of the sexual side effects of caber either. If anything, I believe it contributes to my dopamine desensitization.

I believe I have low cortisol symptoms. One that caught my eye was craving sugar. I’ve actually taken note of it for a long time that I crave sweets all the time. Like all the time. Back in my bodybuilding days I went long periods of time without sugar. But for the past year it’s been a huge craving of mine.

Going off that, I took insulin a few times while I was off this last time and I felt an immediate spike in sex drive. Nothing crazy but it brought me to the level which I would like to be at. It happened like clockwork every single time. I brought it up in another forum and nobody seemed to have any clues on what could cause that.

Researching and seeing the ties between adrenal hormones and blood glucose, could there be some correlation?

Second question, if I’m suffering from lowered cortisol levels, would progesterone cream help to raise cortisol and lower adrenaline?

In other forums that are specific to adrenal fatigue, the common theory is that in order to heal from adrenal fatigue, you take hydrocortisone or cortef to “rest” the adrenals and relieve of symptoms. Then after a few months you taper of hydrocortisone. Would it be better for me to attempt to get similar results with progesterone cream or should I attempt low dose hydrocortisone?

I would prefer you use low dose hydrocortisone. What you’re saying about libido and sugar is accurate which is why some guys get libido spikes after cheat meals. A combo of serotonin to relax you and insulin spikes does the trick. And yes guys use wayyyyy too much these days and wayyyy too many ppl use ancillary drugs to control things that don’t need it. You’ll get through this. In the meantime start using licorice Root tea in the mornings and try to lower stimulants @russpow

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Dude deca fucked my cateer too.

Its been close to 1.5 years.

What helped me a minite bit is some herbs.

I habe heard it takes a long ass time tp recober from deca/tren

Hey man, by chance, have you had your SHBG checked? I know insulin suppresses it. Maybe that is what Is causing the temporary burst in libido. Would also be good to just see if that might be an issue as well. Sucking up all your free test.

Last time it was checked was right before going on test in April.

It was 32 reference range 10-50.

I wasn’t using any insulin at the time of that test. Is that considered too high?

That is a decent SHBG. I wouldn’t think that would be causing you any issues. What was your Total Test though.

Total test was 424

OK, so this might be something you need to address.

While your SHBG is relatively decent, your Total Test is on the low end. Your Free test might be contributing to how you feel.

I would think that you would “heal” a lot faster if those numbers looked better.

Yeah total test is on the lower end. But I think it’s a pretty decent number considering how long and hard I was cycling. That blood test was only 6 months after going off.

The concern is, even with trt dose test I’m having symptoms, but it seems like it’s a trend where guys with natural low t have pretty good libido, mild ED and when they go on trt, they have total loss of libido and more severe ED. It seems that exogenous test doesn’t do as good of a job as natural test production. You’re probably right, improving those numbers could help improve my symptoms.

I only say this because… Lets say you fix the other issues, the dopamine and the receptors. Well if your T is low you’ll be missing a piece of the puzzle that is needed for the whole picture to come into focus…

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So I would say on a scale of 1-10 my sex drive is at 1 right now. I’m dropping the test completely. No point of being on test and not feeling any better than being off. I think I might of even been better while I was off. My last shot was Monday half a cc. Running hcg now, 14 days after that I will take triptorelin and a few days after I’ll start 20mg nolvadex, 12.5mg clomid.

Any tips?