Damage Control

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

I checked your pics from your log (the DC thing) and your upper body looks completely untrained while your legs look semi-trained; I don’t mean this as an insult, youre a taller dude and obviously not posing properly. But yeah you look kinda like Artem (find his thread on this site) after his bulk – and guess what? He didn’t gain a commensurate amount of strength with the added weight either.

Not everyone is cut out to become “huge”. To get “huge” you should aim to have somewhat shocking lifts (free weight or machine) but not everyone has the ability to “get super strong”. PERMAbulkers get impressively strong while theyre adding all kinds of tissue, DREAMER bulkers end up benching well under 3 plates while weighing close to 300 pounds.

Basically you’re a grown man who’s BB shoulder pressing 150 pounds at 260 pounds??? I’m afraid the whole “powerbuilding” thing with a gallon of milk isn’t designed for you. Youre basically a 170-180 pound man walking around in a 260 pound body based off your pics and lifts. The good news is you’ll look great ripped at 180 or thereabouts.

Just continue lifting and follow a sensible diet plan with one caveat : pick one that does NOT include crap loading or all out bingeing or carbing up for an entire day. Heck do the AD, it will work as long as you limit yourself to a carb up for a SINGLE night (around 4 hours)

22

[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I checked your pics from your log (the DC thing) and your upper body looks completely untrained while your legs look semi-trained; I don’t mean this as an insult, youre a taller dude and obviously not posing properly. But yeah you look kinda like Artem (find his thread on this site) after his bulk – and guess what? He didn’t gain a commensurate amount of strength with the added weight either.

Not everyone is cut out to become “huge”. To get “huge” you should aim to have somewhat shocking lifts (free weight or machine) but not everyone has the ability to “get super strong”. PERMAbulkers get impressively strong while theyre adding all kinds of tissue, DREAMER bulkers end up benching well under 3 plates while weighing close to 300 pounds.

Basically you’re a grown man who’s BB shoulder pressing 150 pounds at 260 pounds??? I’m afraid the whole “powerbuilding” thing with a gallon of milk isn’t designed for you. Youre basically a 170-180 pound man walking around in a 260 pound body based off your pics and lifts. The good news is you’ll look great ripped at 180 or thereabouts.

Just continue lifting and follow a sensible diet plan with one caveat : pick one that does NOT include crap loading or all out bingeing or carbing up for an entire day. Heck do the AD, it will work as long as you limit yourself to a carb up for a SINGLE night (around 4 hours)[/quote]

Well, I’m not sure what to say to any of this. Thanks, I guess. Look, I know I don’t look great. I wasn’t as consistent with my training and nutrition as I should have been and I’m paying for that now. I need to lose a lot of fat. But, you’re telling me I’d have to get down to 170-180 to look good? I think by the estimates in here it seems I’m carrying around 195 or so lbs of lean tissue. So, I’d have to LOSE 10lbs of muscle to look good in your opinion? I feel like you’re being a bit harsh. I’ll take all of the advice in here to heart though. Thanks for the replies.

23

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:

[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I checked your pics from your log (the DC thing) and your upper body looks completely untrained while your legs look semi-trained; I don’t mean this as an insult, youre a taller dude and obviously not posing properly. But yeah you look kinda like Artem (find his thread on this site) after his bulk – and guess what? He didn’t gain a commensurate amount of strength with the added weight either.

Not everyone is cut out to become “huge”. To get “huge” you should aim to have somewhat shocking lifts (free weight or machine) but not everyone has the ability to “get super strong”. PERMAbulkers get impressively strong while theyre adding all kinds of tissue, DREAMER bulkers end up benching well under 3 plates while weighing close to 300 pounds.

Basically you’re a grown man who’s BB shoulder pressing 150 pounds at 260 pounds??? I’m afraid the whole “powerbuilding” thing with a gallon of milk isn’t designed for you. Youre basically a 170-180 pound man walking around in a 260 pound body based off your pics and lifts. The good news is you’ll look great ripped at 180 or thereabouts.

Just continue lifting and follow a sensible diet plan with one caveat : pick one that does NOT include crap loading or all out bingeing or carbing up for an entire day. Heck do the AD, it will work as long as you limit yourself to a carb up for a SINGLE night (around 4 hours)[/quote]

Well, I’m not sure what to say to any of this. Thanks, I guess. Look, I know I don’t look great. I wasn’t as consistent with my training and nutrition as I should have been and I’m paying for that now. I need to lose a lot of fat. But, you’re telling me I’d have to get down to 170-180 to look good? I think by the estimates in here it seems I’m carrying around 195 or so lbs of lean tissue. So, I’d have to LOSE 10lbs of muscle to look good in your opinion? I feel like you’re being a bit harsh. I’ll take all of the advice in here to heart though. Thanks for the replies.
[/quote]

No one on here says you have 195 lbs of lean body mass. I said even at 25% bodyfat, thats what you would have. You might be even higher bodyfat. 195 lbs of lean mass is a lot! Post some pics and people on here can give a better estimate, but mid teen’s generally look good on someone with some muscle.

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THis is the pic from your log from November. Based on this, I think you could cut 30-40 lbs and look pretty muscular, assuming a slow cut and you maintain the muscle you currently have.

25

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Lol at being a ?lean? guy. I?m probably in the teens for BF%. But I?ll take the compliment, especially being in a list with stu. My current method is to only eat a few carbs around training (I like coconut water), don?t eat any grains or starches, ensure a moderate amount of protein, eat all the fat and veggies (low carb) I want, and eat whenever I get hungry.

That has me at about 200 pounds with some vascularity in my delts/traps/arms/chest and breaking all my strength PRs from when I was fat while not counting calories or doing any real worrying about food.[/quote]

+1 on the calorie counting. If you don’t measure it, you can’t change it. I just recently (last few months) went back to the drawing board because I wasn’t making gains or losing fat. Turns out I was way under eating by approximately 800-1000 calories. Once I corrected my intake, I started losing the gut and can see some muscle gain; eating more to lose the weight. I was storing all food as fat as my body was on ‘starvation’ mode.

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[quote]drew925 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Lol at being a ?lean? guy. I?m probably in the teens for BF%. But I?ll take the compliment, especially being in a list with stu. My current method is to only eat a few carbs around training (I like coconut water), don?t eat any grains or starches, ensure a moderate amount of protein, eat all the fat and veggies (low carb) I want, and eat whenever I get hungry.

That has me at about 200 pounds with some vascularity in my delts/traps/arms/chest and breaking all my strength PRs from when I was fat while not counting calories or doing any real worrying about food.[/quote]

+1 on the calorie counting. If you don’t measure it, you can’t change it. I just recently (last few months) went back to the drawing board because I wasn’t making gains or losing fat. Turns out I was way under eating by approximately 800-1000 calories. Once I corrected my intake, I started losing the gut and can see some muscle gain; eating more to lose the weight. I was storing all food as fat as my body was on ‘starvation’ mode.

[/quote]

IMO for someone just starting to cut at 258 pounds, he can probably start out not measuring and just eating more sensible foods.

At least for me, calorie counting was much more beneficial when I first started lifting and was trying to put on weight (started at 140lbs, 5’10"). When I’ve tried to lose weight, I’ve always just started by cutting out foods I knew wouldn’t be helpful (e.g. peanut butter for me). For someone who needs to lose weight though (and a lot of it), making smarter food choices will probably be sufficient at least for the first few weeks.

Thing about the counting is that for some people it can become too much and lead to them quitting the diet altogether. IMO the OP should start simpler, make some progress that way to whet his cutting weight appetite and to see that success is possible, then down the road start counting cals and whatnot.

27

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:

[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I checked your pics from your log (the DC thing) and your upper body looks completely untrained while your legs look semi-trained; I don’t mean this as an insult, youre a taller dude and obviously not posing properly. But yeah you look kinda like Artem (find his thread on this site) after his bulk – and guess what? He didn’t gain a commensurate amount of strength with the added weight either.

Not everyone is cut out to become “huge”. To get “huge” you should aim to have somewhat shocking lifts (free weight or machine) but not everyone has the ability to “get super strong”. PERMAbulkers get impressively strong while theyre adding all kinds of tissue, DREAMER bulkers end up benching well under 3 plates while weighing close to 300 pounds.

Basically you’re a grown man who’s BB shoulder pressing 150 pounds at 260 pounds??? I’m afraid the whole “powerbuilding” thing with a gallon of milk isn’t designed for you. Youre basically a 170-180 pound man walking around in a 260 pound body based off your pics and lifts. The good news is you’ll look great ripped at 180 or thereabouts.

Just continue lifting and follow a sensible diet plan with one caveat : pick one that does NOT include crap loading or all out bingeing or carbing up for an entire day. Heck do the AD, it will work as long as you limit yourself to a carb up for a SINGLE night (around 4 hours)[/quote]

Well, I’m not sure what to say to any of this. Thanks, I guess. Look, I know I don’t look great. I wasn’t as consistent with my training and nutrition as I should have been and I’m paying for that now. I need to lose a lot of fat. But, you’re telling me I’d have to get down to 170-180 to look good? I think by the estimates in here it seems I’m carrying around 195 or so lbs of lean tissue. So, I’d have to LOSE 10lbs of muscle to look good in your opinion? I feel like you’re being a bit harsh. I’ll take all of the advice in here to heart though. Thanks for the replies.
[/quote]

You can pretty much take that post as gospel. It might seem harsh, but the truth often is. You can’t be eating your way up to 260lbs while pulling 385x5 for deadlifts and expect to gain a lot of muscle. Keep the strength you have (or even build some), while cutting down. I don’t think DC training is right for you to be honest, but whatever. Stick with it if you like it. For diet, I’d just spread my macros over 5-6 equal meals a day at first, it really simplifies things when you hit sticking points and you need to take away some carbs each meal, or bump cardio 10 minutes a day etc etc. Don’t feel too bad about the feedback. I made a lot of mistakes on my bulk too, and even more on my cut. haha

28

Maybe I’m mis-remembering, but isn’t DC really only designed for very experienced lifters and involve fairly low volume and high frequency?

29

lol @ 195lbs of lean tissue. ecchastang is being generous at looking good sans 40-50lbs of fat… again, I am 190 at 25% BF% (granted, this is an estimation, so if anything it is actually higher than that) and my numbers are far better than yours… the most accurate estimation might put you ripped at 170-180 with those numbers, which is incredibly skinny (you are taller, so you may be roughly my bf% at roughly 20-30lbs heavier than me which is, to re-iterate, not that ripped… that being said, your bf% distribution is pretty even which means you tend to look better at higher bf%-ages (mine tends to store in the mid-region)…

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:

[quote]Depression Boy wrote:
I checked your pics from your log (the DC thing) and your upper body looks completely untrained while your legs look semi-trained; I don’t mean this as an insult, youre a taller dude and obviously not posing properly. But yeah you look kinda like Artem (find his thread on this site) after his bulk – and guess what? He didn’t gain a commensurate amount of strength with the added weight either.

Not everyone is cut out to become “huge”. To get “huge” you should aim to have somewhat shocking lifts (free weight or machine) but not everyone has the ability to “get super strong”. PERMAbulkers get impressively strong while theyre adding all kinds of tissue, DREAMER bulkers end up benching well under 3 plates while weighing close to 300 pounds.

Basically you’re a grown man who’s BB shoulder pressing 150 pounds at 260 pounds??? I’m afraid the whole “powerbuilding” thing with a gallon of milk isn’t designed for you. Youre basically a 170-180 pound man walking around in a 260 pound body based off your pics and lifts. The good news is you’ll look great ripped at 180 or thereabouts.

Just continue lifting and follow a sensible diet plan with one caveat : pick one that does NOT include crap loading or all out bingeing or carbing up for an entire day. Heck do the AD, it will work as long as you limit yourself to a carb up for a SINGLE night (around 4 hours)[/quote]

Well, I’m not sure what to say to any of this. Thanks, I guess. Look, I know I don’t look great. I wasn’t as consistent with my training and nutrition as I should have been and I’m paying for that now. I need to lose a lot of fat. But, you’re telling me I’d have to get down to 170-180 to look good? I think by the estimates in here it seems I’m carrying around 195 or so lbs of lean tissue. So, I’d have to LOSE 10lbs of muscle to look good in your opinion? I feel like you’re being a bit harsh. I’ll take all of the advice in here to heart though. Thanks for the replies.
[/quote]

30

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
You post on this site and honestly believe you lack the information to “tighten up a little”? If so, you should spend less time conversing with Mr. cheeseburger. Actually thinking about it, your post incl. your choice of words is almost ironic.

Anyway, I give you a hint: the answer you seek has to do with the stuff that made you fat in the first place.[/quote]
Yeah seriously. Posse membership revoked. You’re probably above the teens and need to cut for a while.

My answer is iifym and keep lowering cals slowly. Oh and read the contest prep threads [/quote]

This was my first thought. If you think you’re in the high teens, you’re probably closer to mid-20’s. I think iifym is ridiculous for the most part. Look into Nate Miyaki’s stuff here. That dude knows his shit.
[/quote]
I like IIFYM a lot. But I end up spreading my meals out and eating vegetables and healthy fats so maybe it’s not much different than other diets.

OP, dreamer bulking is a right of passage on this site lol. You’ll look good once you cut down

31

Dude I don’t mean to be a dick, but from the amount of crap you give Professor X at any opportunity (albeit some of it is deserved), you’d be one of the last guys I’d expect to have recklessly gained 90 lbs in two years. That absolutely blows my mind. Just start counting your macros and I’m sure you’ll begin leaning up fairly easily, it shouldn’t be too tough to start

32

This is truly Artem 2.0 when he was telling everyone he was at the same level of development as Austin lol

Listen, JP, UtahLama is the same height as you and was 220 pounds at 10%ish bodyfat in that office bathroom picture he put up a while back.

Basically Utah’s carrying 195ish pounds of LBM and you honestly thought you’re anywhere near his level of development? Please seriously rethink what you’re doing. I admire the fact that you pushed the envelope to try and build size and strength, but yeah, you did that and figured out its not the approach for you. It DID get you from a (possibly) skinny fat 170 to what will eventually be a ripped 180 so the end result is still well worth it.

No harm no foul, youre simply looking at first a huge drop in bodyweight to get ripped and then after a few years of gaining mass you CAN look like ,say, Spidey on this site. Its still doable.

@ the whole dreamer bulking vs permabulking: PX, Steely, Heavythrower, FattyFat and many others on this site overdid the bulking up thing, and made many mistakes but they ALL reached a significant level of development. Those are the “permabulkers”. Yes, they all overestimate their LBM but nowhere near the level of the dreamer-bulkers lol

OT the dreamerbulkers seem to be the one who are particularly pissed off at X’s tireless crusade against “hawt abz” since they’re the ones who got the shaft.

[quote]MickyGee wrote:
lol @ 195lbs of lean tissue.

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
I think by the estimates in here it seems I’m carrying around 195 or so lbs of lean tissue.
[/quote]
[/quote]

33

Thanks for the replies. I understand where you guys are coming from. I’ll make adjustments and get my shit together. I would appreciate it if I could get some more ideas on how to lose the weight rather than people repeatedly telling me I’m fat, which I already know. And, to answer the comment about the X thing: I have never told X that I thought his methods didn’t work or anything of that nature. All I have ever argued with him about is how he talks to people. I know I have fat to lose. This thread was started to get some help with that. Not to be told things I already know. Once again, I appreciate the responses. I need a reality check.

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[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I understand where you guys are coming from. I’ll make adjustments and get my shit together. I would appreciate it if I could get some more ideas on how to lose the weight rather than people repeatedly telling me I’m fat, which I already know. And, to answer the comment about the X thing: I have never told X that I thought his methods didn’t work or anything of that nature. All I have ever argued with him about is how he talks to people. I know I have fat to lose. This thread was started to get some help with that. Not to be told things I already know. Once again, I appreciate the responses. I need a reality check.[/quote]

There is some good info in this thread for you, my man. As someone pointed out, Miyaki has some really good nutrition articles. I’d read through those, and maybe check out the ones called ‘the simple diet’, ‘100g carb cure’ and ‘green faces diet’. Throw a google out there for a ‘IIFYM’ calculator and figure out what you need to be eating. Since you like strength-focused routines, I would look into Wendlers 5/3/1 since it has built in condition (hill/treadmill sprints, prowler work), and Wendler himself says to cut the carbs down a bit when fighting adipose. Experiment and keep a log so you know what is working or not for YOU.

35

[quote]aspengc8 wrote:

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I understand where you guys are coming from. I’ll make adjustments and get my shit together. I would appreciate it if I could get some more ideas on how to lose the weight rather than people repeatedly telling me I’m fat, which I already know. And, to answer the comment about the X thing: I have never told X that I thought his methods didn’t work or anything of that nature. All I have ever argued with him about is how he talks to people. I know I have fat to lose. This thread was started to get some help with that. Not to be told things I already know. Once again, I appreciate the responses. I need a reality check.[/quote]

There is some good info in this thread for you, my man. As someone pointed out, Miyaki has some really good nutrition articles. I’d read through those, and maybe check out the ones called ‘the simple diet’, ‘100g carb cure’ and ‘green faces diet’. Throw a google out there for a ‘IIFYM’ calculator and figure out what you need to be eating. Since you like strength-focused routines, I would look into Wendlers 5/3/1 since it has built in condition (hill/treadmill sprints, prowler work), and Wendler himself says to cut the carbs down a bit when fighting adipose. Experiment and keep a log so you know what is working or not for YOU.
[/quote]

Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate this.

36

I think we’ve all been where you have, to a degree.

I have old pictures somewhere of where I ‘dreamer bulked’ and it wasn’t pretty. Didn’t get as high in BW as you, but still had to come to terms that I was out-eating the weight I was adding on to the bar and deluding myself into thinking I was just acquiring pound after pound of LBM lolololol

Anyways, I personally used CarbBackloading to get back down to a reasonable BF (actually got what looked to be right near single digits, but I was a twig like 170ish). I think it’s very good for the purpose of losing some fat while still maximizing performance. I’ve basically done CBL ever since, just tweaking it towards my liking. I think there is some science to back-up it’s effectiveness, but mostly it fits my habits and lifestyle well and allows me to stay… and this the most important thing… CONSISTENT.

I would suggest monitoring what you eat, make it consistent, and figure out some macros, so you’re not just taking shots in the dark here. I would also maybe move away from something like DC. I think if I was Benching 350 for RP sets, yeah, a ‘top-set’ would do some damage. But for me personally I think doing a little bit of volume not only helps with strength and size, but allows me a ‘little’ leeway with my caloric intake.

I know people are being tough on ya, but it’s a good wake-up call. Don’t get down about it. Everyone knew to lifting makes these fuck ups, and luckily your on nobody’s deadline other than your own. Count your calories/macros, get on some kind of consistent schedule that allows you to hit meals/macros, and get on a program that will warrant your caloric intake.

If you don’t know where to start, I always just go BW x 13 for ‘cutting’: So for you that’s like 3400 kcal. Idk if that’s what you’re eating, but that’s where I would ‘start’. I personally set protein at 1g/lb of BW, and fats .5g/lb of BW. Then I fill the rest with carbs. So that would be:

260g of Pro
130g of Fat
300g of Carbs

I rounded a little bit, but you get the picture. Honestly, BF is a bit higher, so you may not even need that much protein, and if you wanted to move that to fats or carbs don’t think it would be too much of an issue. Right now I wouldn’t fuck with carb-cycling or anything, not until you get down to at least 220-ish. Regardless, I would personally start at some macros like that, make a meal plan, and adjust accordingly week to week based on results.

And if that’s all shitty advice sorry, because I’m not very big, but I do know how to get lean, so I feel I have some decent input to give.

37

Good luck man

Some fuckers have the genetics to be huge and move weight while others have the genetics to look good (a few have the genetics to be both but whatever)

You should look really realy good a few years from now given your height (big advantage there).

[quote]J. Prufrock wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I understand where you guys are coming from. I’ll make adjustments and get my shit together. I would appreciate it if I could get some more ideas on how to lose the weight rather than people repeatedly telling me I’m fat, which I already know. And, to answer the comment about the X thing: I have never told X that I thought his methods didn’t work or anything of that nature. All I have ever argued with him about is how he talks to people. I know I have fat to lose. This thread was started to get some help with that. Not to be told things I already know. Once again, I appreciate the responses. I need a reality check.[/quote]

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The thing to remember is that it takes time. The good news is that you can eat quite a lot of food and make progress for a long time with minimal suffering. I’ve recently done what you are about to do, so feel free to shoot me a PM whenever. I was way worse off when I started than you are now, that’s for sure. lol

39

Nice Ben!

40

Helluva transformation, Ben!