Anyone ever use this with any success, especially for hypertrophy? It seems pretty intersting and thinking of trying it out for several months. I’m thinking of trying Cosgrove’s VRT program but switching up a couple of the exercises.
No it’s not really the ideal way to go about this at all.
In fact it will probably counteract your efforts to gain muscle at any reasonable rate.
Could you explain why at all? I’ve read a few studies on it and all of them seem to conclude that it will you stronger at a quicker rate than following constant set/rep parameters for several weeks or months. I’m a pretty big believer that size will follow strength when enough volume is used.
When I first began weight training over a year ago, I was on Stephen Adele’s program in his book “MAXIMUM GROWTH, Volume II”.
If I understand correctly, you mean changing rep ranges several times a week. Adele’s program had workouts on Mon. Wed. and Fri. with legs on Saturday.
These rep ranges were from 4 sets of 8 to 4 sets of 25, with drop sets thrown in on Wed.
It would cycle through different workouts for two weeks changing reps and movements and then repeat.
I did this for three months and it worked fine, I was a beginner; however, so basically everything works for a beginner, but i did put about 1 1/4 inch on my arms during that time.
If you structure it right and pay attention to what you think your body needs in terms of excercise, there’s no reason it wouldn’t work.
Keeping concise logs is quite important on such a program because your constantly cycling through different excercises and won’t repeat for a couple of weeks.
Then you can start comparing apples to apples and see your progress.
To put it simply it isn’t a method bodybuilders have found to work very well, because it’s an unreliable way of measuring progress.
It’s not a new concept either, and truthfully you aren’t going to find any examples of anybody who trains this way and has made decent progress in bodybuilding - and i’m not talking about beginner gains, as 50_Caliber was saying.
You’ll find that in bodybuilding, the SIMPLEST method is 99% of the time the best method.
Um… who you gonna believe the guy who trains thousands of clients successfully or the guy with a dog as his avatar.
I’d go with Cosgrove… Not to mention that it just makes sense, and most programs now a days use different rep ranges. If you only train in one rep range, your only hitting one pool of motor units, not very optimal IMO.
I may have missed something though because you did say daily undulating periodizaiton, and i may be thinking of weekly.
Either way, I’d like to hear what mr. popular thinks is the “superior method”
Perhaps you should email Cosgrove rather than making a thread on a public bodybuilding forum? =)
I’ve never seen or heard about any of Cosgrove’s clients being successful at bodybuilding, nor does the man himself look like he lifts weights. I’m sure this kind of training has it’s uses in other areas, but its just not a very productive way to build muscles very quickly.
There is no one “superior” method but a much better place to start would obviously be traditional bodybuilding training, the way people have done it and seen success for decades.
Well although this is labeled the bodybuilding forum, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the OP wants to be HYUGE. Until T-Nation creates an average joe thread, or look good naked thread, i’ll have to assume that a lot of them are posting in here. Like myself.
We already have Strength Sports, and Get A Life forums. I don’t see how its not all covered…
This was posted in the bodybuilding section so I’m assuming bodybuilding is of interest to the OP, and in that case “daily undulating periodization” is just another way of taking something that is very simple and making it very complicated for no reason.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
I’ve never seen or heard about any of Cosgrove’s clients being successful at bodybuilding[/quote]
He trains athletes from all sports, as well as non-athletes. Just because he doesn’t name names of bodybuilders he’s worked with doesn’t mean he hasn’t worked with any. Actually, he has worked with bodybuilders, and triathletes, mixed martial artists, and ice skaters, among others.
If you want more details, you should probably e-mail him instead of ranting “on a public bodybuilding forum.”
That’s a seriously shitty thing to say, and here’s why:
http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2008/06/two-years-ago.html
He was an international-level TKD competitor, until he got sidetracked by building a career as one of the most respected (except by you, apparently) fitness professionals in the industry, and then there was the above-mentioned bothersome “cancer” thing.
Constructive criticisms of a coach’s methods are one thing, talking completely out of your ass and complaining that he doesn’t look like he lifts, after having a complete stem cell transplant, is another.
[quote]tremad12 wrote:
Anyone ever use this with any success, especially for hypertrophy? It seems pretty intersting and thinking of trying it out for several months. I’m thinking of trying Cosgrove’s VRT program but switching up a couple of the exercises.[/quote]
The VRT program looks similar to many of Chad Waterbury’s programs, where you rotate the set/rep scheme throughout the week while using the same exercises.
It’s a solid plan all-around, but if you’re not used to higher frequency training, be prepared to deal with some significant soreness initially.
[quote]tremad12 wrote:
Anyone ever use this with any success, especially for hypertrophy? It seems pretty intersting and thinking of trying it out for several months. I’m thinking of trying Cosgrove’s VRT program but switching up a couple of the exercises.[/quote]
I tried it and it sucked. I used Cosgrove’s “hypertrophy” program in New Rules of Lifting and didn’t see hypertrophy or strength gains. Then I did Rippetoe’s beginner program and that worked like magic. I added about 80 lbs to my squat and deadlift. Cosgrove’s stuff is all crap.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
To put it simply it isn’t a method bodybuilders have found to work very well, because it’s an unreliable way of measuring progress.
It’s not a new concept either, and truthfully you aren’t going to find any examples of anybody who trains this way and has made decent progress in bodybuilding - and i’m not talking about beginner gains, as 50_Caliber was saying.
You’ll find that in bodybuilding, the SIMPLEST method is 99% of the time the best method.[/quote]
Yes.
I think I’m gonna give Cosgrove’s VRT a try for 6-8 weeks and see what kind of progress I make. I’ll be stopping my manual labor job in the next week to start school again so it should be easier for me to add mass and give this program a good shot.
I’ve been doing mostly full body routines the past 6 months with decent results, but it’s also been really hard to get in enough calories when all I do is move shit and climb up ladders 9 hours a day. So the switch back to school should help me out anyways.
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
He trains athletes from all sports, as well as non-athletes. Just because he doesn’t name names of bodybuilders he’s worked with doesn’t mean he hasn’t worked with any. Actually, he has worked with bodybuilders, and triathletes, mixed martial artists, and ice skaters, among others.
If you want more details, you should probably e-mail him instead of ranting “on a public bodybuilding forum.” [/quote]
…What? Why would I want more details?
[quote]That’s a seriously shitty thing to say, and here’s why:
http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2008/06/two-years-ago.html
He was an international-level TKD competitor, until he got sidetracked by building a career as one of the most respected (except by you, apparently) fitness professionals in the industry, and then there was the above-mentioned bothersome “cancer” thing.
Constructive criticisms of a coach’s methods are one thing, talking completely out of your ass and complaining that he doesn’t look like he lifts, after having a complete stem cell transplant, is another.[/quote]
I never attacked the guy personally, he’s probably a great coach, but bodybuilding clearly isn’t his expertise. So I don’t know why you felt the need to bring all of that up, which I already knew. Would you take advice on martial arts training from a dedicated bodybuilder than has never done martial arts before in his life? I was strictly referring to the man as a professional.
Yes, undulating periodization works very well, and contrary to what mr popular says, it’s really not that complicated unless you absolutely refuse to plan more than a day ahead at a time.
I’m not really sure wahat you mean by “daily” undulating periodization, but if you mean switching loading parameters daily, I’d recommend against it. I would use shorter phases though, on the order of about 4 weeks. I’m assuming you’d be basically alternating between strength and hypertrophy phases. If that’s the case, then I’d try 4 weeks of strength, consisting of two weeks of volume work (no failure) and two weeks of straight strength work.
For the hypertrophy phase, two weeks of 12-15 reps and two weeks of 8-10 with as much volume as you can stand (go to failure if you want) would probably work. I’d use a slightly higher frequency during the strength phase and a lower frequency (and possibly a more split-up schedule) during the hypertrophy phase.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Chris Colucci wrote:
He trains athletes from all sports, as well as non-athletes. Just because he doesn’t name names of bodybuilders he’s worked with doesn’t mean he hasn’t worked with any. Actually, he has worked with bodybuilders, and triathletes, mixed martial artists, and ice skaters, among others.
If you want more details, you should probably e-mail him instead of ranting “on a public bodybuilding forum.”
…What? Why would I want more details?
That’s a seriously shitty thing to say, and here’s why:
http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/2008/06/two-years-ago.html
He was an international-level TKD competitor, until he got sidetracked by building a career as one of the most respected (except by you, apparently) fitness professionals in the industry, and then there was the above-mentioned bothersome “cancer” thing.
Constructive criticisms of a coach’s methods are one thing, talking completely out of your ass and complaining that he doesn’t look like he lifts, after having a complete stem cell transplant, is another.
I never attacked the guy personally, he’s probably a great coach, but bodybuilding clearly isn’t his expertise. So I don’t know why you felt the need to bring all of that up, which I already knew. Would you take advice on martial arts training from a dedicated bodybuilder than has never done martial arts before in his life? I was strictly referring to the man as a professional.[/quote]
First of all, you actually did attack the guy personally by saying he himself actually doesn’t look like he lifts weights, that is personal and if it isn’t I don’t know what is. Secondly, you are saying your opinion as if it were fact without backing up your argument other than saying he doesn’t train any notable bodybuilders.
Secondly, you say that daily undulating periodization doesn’t work for bodybuilding. Then say that 99% of the time the SIMPLEST routine is the best? What does that mean? Do you even know what daily undulating periodization is? Numerous study have consistenly shown that this is one of the best ways to train, because it allows you to train frequently harder for a longer period of time without a much lower risk of overtraining. Correct if I’m wrong, but thats how you gain size and strength.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
Yes, undulating periodization works very well, and contrary to what mr popular says, it’s really not that complicated unless you absolutely refuse to plan more than a day ahead at a time.
I’m not really sure wahat you mean by “daily” undulating periodization, but if you mean switching loading parameters daily, I’d recommend against it. I would use shorter phases though, on the order of about 4 weeks. I’m assuming you’d be basically alternating between strength and hypertrophy phases. If that’s the case, then I’d try 4 weeks of strength, consisting of two weeks of volume work (no failure) and two weeks of straight strength work. For the hypertrophy phase, two weeks of 12-15 reps and two weeks of 8-10 with as much volume as you can stand (go to failure if you want) would probably work. I’d use a slightly higher frequency during the strength phase and a lower frequency (and possibly a more split-up schedule) during the hypertrophy phase.[/quote]
You are right, daily just means switch up the reps each day.
But, I have a concern about training in this manner because you experience a de-training effect when going 4 weeks on one phase then 4 weeks on another. Thats the beauty of daily undulating periodization, you don’t experience this de-training effect.
Alright guys, try training this way and let everybody at T-Nation know what great results you have a year from now. =)
I wish you all the best of luck.
[quote]mr popular wrote:
Alright guys, try training this way and let everybody at T-Nation know what great results you have a year from now. =)
I wish you all the best of luck.[/quote]
That sounds solid.
Maybe ask for a “Daily Undulating Periodization” T-cell.
Keep all the newbs out.