T Nation

Dailies/EOD to Lesser Frequency

Greetings,

I have been coming across plenty of members who go from weekly or twice weekly injections to every other day or dailies. But I hardly see any going in to opposite direction, Daily or every other day injections to twice or once a week. I know there are exceptions. If the members of this from could post their original protocol and how it has evolved over time I think that would be wonderful as sort of a reference guide to others starting TRT and others looking to dial in their protocol.

Stay Strong

I did once a week test enanthate, then every two weeks Sustanon, then twice a week cypionate for a long time. I switched to cypionate once a week a few weeks ago, so far libido is up and other than that it seems the same as twice a week. Shallow IM atm, but I’ve tried sub-q as well. I prefer IM.

I start showing benefits to TRT injecting EOD, twice weekly and I start losing benefits, body comp changes reverse no matter how high my levels are. I inject IM using 29 gauge insulin syringes in the shoulders and quads.

I started with 160mg Test IM, 1mg Anastrozole, and 500 IU HCG, 1xweek and experienced horrible sides. I split everything in half and took it E3.5D and felt better, but still not great. Then I stopped my AI and HCG, which made me feel even better still. But it was temporary. Then I got fatigued. Really fatigued. And I’m craving and eating everything in sight and starting to gain fat quickly. So…I’m waiting on some labs and a consult with a new doc at the moment…where I go from here, And the outcome, will be in my TRT log.

I usually feel better the first week and a half when starting a new protocol, then feel really shitty for another two or three weeks. You just need to ride it out a full 8 weeks. I notice on your journal, you change shit too quickly. You felt good the first month of TRT because you still naturally produced testosterone, plus you had the injections. This means the first month doesn’t count for homeostasis. You then only gave the actual protocol one month instead of the two it needs for homeostasis.

As for eating, that’s 100% you. Don’t gain bodyfat above 15-20%, it negatively impacts TRT.

If you could inject as close to 0 to feel optimal, wouldn’t you?

People start with 1 or 2 injections a week, then find they feel fluctuations and move to more injections to reduce their peaks and troughs. Many people end up going on daily injections, then find they feel great. If they didn’t try EOD, some will try that down the road but that means another 2 months of possibly feeling shitty on a new protocol, then another while going back to their original protocol. This whole experiment could take 6 months to feel back to normal, so if feeling great it’s tough to justify changing anything.

Greetings,

Yes, if injecting as close to 0 is what is optimal, then of course.

I think I have read somewhere that someone went from EOD to a lesser frequency due to hematocrit being more stable on lesser frequency or something along those lines. My post was a merely just to have a more streamlined evolution of protocol changes of the forum members.

Stay Strong

@marcus007 totally agree that I’ve changed things too frequently. I tend to overthink things quite a bit. My failed experiments were my main reason for starting a TRT log on T nation. Hoping at least one other guy out there can see my mistakes and not make them.

Could it be the guys that inject more than 60 mg an injection feel the fluctuations more and have a need to go more frequently?

More guys should start at injecting total of 100 a week or less

I wouldn’t think you would. Most move to more frequent injections because, for whatever reason, they were not satisfied with their results on less frequent dosing.

Most of my guys moving from once to twice a week stay with twice a week. Those going from once, to twice, back to once a week did so because they didn’t feel any difference between the two, felt better with once a week, or simply for the sake of convenience. Almost all of them use between 140-200mg a week.

Of the few dozen that have gone to even more frequent dosing, usually three times a week or every other day, only a couple stayed with it and most went back to twice weekly. The majority of them didn’t feel any better with more frequent dosing. A couple of the every day guys felt worse, one doing daily dosing experienced severe insomnia. Switched him to proprionate twice a week and he’s doing great. Go figure. Of the patients I have that tried daily, zero have stuck with it. They end up going back to twice weekly.

I think it is important to note that most, not all, of these guys were doing fine with once weekly dosing and just wanted to experiment to see if they would do even better.

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Over 6 years of injections every 3.5 days.

Switching to eod injections has allowed me to drop the AI, along with all the side effects an AI brings.

Why? I’m guessing that 150 per week is probably a better number to start at. That way people can either move up or down from there.

100mg per week for me, didn’t alleviate any of my symptoms.

Depends. There’s many guys that inject 200mg once a week and report they feel great all the time.

Absolutely not. I felt like death at 100mg. At 150mg I felt normal. Most people I think need at least 150mg. More need 200mg than 100mg/week.

Exactly.

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I disagree.

If you check other forums many are near 100 mg. My urologist has hundreds on trt and most are near 100 . I myself take 120.

Like any other hormone medication (ie thyroid meds) and many other long term medicines… You start lower and go higher not the other way around.

Think about it. You suppose to take the least amount that resolve symptoms. So if you start at 150 and feel good , you would never know if at 100 you feel good as well.

And if you start higher you are really shocking your testosterone deficient endocrine system.

Which forums? /r/Testosterone/? Most forums I’ve seen other than this one are ridiculously retarded. All discussions involve “high E2”, AI dosage, and this and that irrelevant variable, and no one ever feels good permanently.

Many clinics actually start their patients on 200mg off the bat. Just because your urologist has people at 100, doesn’t mean they’re optimal, nor even feeling good.

Ok, you could also start at 100 and your real necessary dose is 75, keep going up and you’re also screwed. Key is what will most likely work off the bat. If you know most people feel symptom-relief at 150-200mg/week, then why would you even try starting someone at 100mg?

Furthermore, if you feel good on 150, I don’t see why you would change anything. More T does not automatically equal evil. If I felt good at 150, I’d bump to 170-200mg and see if I could feel even better. If I felt the same, I’d just go back to 150mg/weekly.

This study had men on 600mg/week and concluded “testosterone did not adversely affect atherogenic biomarkers”:

200 mg test/week for 1 year was not found to significantly alter BP in men. Diastolic BP intially went slightly up but then returned to baseline:

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(16)58166-7/pdf

High-Dose TRT (levels above 750 ng/dl) was able to reduce CV event risk and death by 400% compared to no TRT and by 200% when compared to medium-dose TRT in men with heart disease over a 3 year time period:

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