T Nation

D-BOL Question


#1

I have a question I was hoping I could get a little feedback, im going to be running a d-bol deca, test e cycle. Ill be doing the oral to jump start the cycle for the first 4 or 5 weeks in, then stop the deca 2 weeks before the test and start pct 2 weeks after last injection, which will be 12 weeks total. My question is could I run the d-bol at the end of cycle, the 2 weeks after last injection before pct? Well I know I can but basically is there any logical reason why I shouldnt? if you really need to know all my stats and mg of everything I can put it.


#2

Go for it.


#3

Some people will say yes, I believe that D-bol gains are quick and sloppy - lots of bloat creates the quick gain, so hence I use it at the start of a cycle to start out quick and then let the rest of the cycle solidify those early quick gains.

But then again why not, I've done it before


#4

Hey TRT are you the same fellow from eroids I was talking to a couple days ago? And thanks for info fellas


#5

"Solidifying the gains" is one of the dumber pieces of bro science Ive come across over the years. It means nothing.


#6

Whatever man, I disagree completely. I've lost plenty if not all of Dbol gains at the end of a cycle going straight into PCT versus at the beginning, starting out with rapid weight and strength gain and then switching to a cut for the remainder of the cycle (7 weeks), keeping all the initial gains at the end and post PCT. That to me sounds like a solidification and maintenance of early cycle, dbol gains. You run a 5 week dbol cycle and go straight into PCT, you'll keep very little of what you gained. That is my experience as well as 90% of people I train with, hence the reason I shared it. Call it what you want, but that's how it goes from what I've seen.


#7

Yes I am on that site.


#8

Muscle gain is muscle gain. Water is water. You cant 'solidfy' water (dont make a comment about ice cubes, Im simply using your silly term). You simply lose the water weight once you come off the dbol. But since your injectible is beginning to show the effects of positive nitrogen retention for 5+ weeks the water weight begins to be replaced with tissue weight.

You dont SOLIDIFY anything. Its not real. Someone made it up to simplify the process and I decided to point out that it doesnt make sense. That's all.

If you run dbol for 8 weeks at a comparable dose to test prop for 8 weeks you will likely gain more WEIGHT on the dbol. But there is a good chance that most people will gain a similar amount of muscle tissue on each. There is simply less water retention with testosterone compared to dbol (even in the presense of an AI because methylestradiol (what dbol aromatizes into) is more potent than estradiol) therefore men tend to lose less weight when coming off testosterone as they do with dbol. Overall tissue production is not that far apart.

So when your claim is based on something more than 'wahh I lose my gains on dbol' I'll take you seriously.


#9

Is your problem with my wording? Remove "solidify the gains" and replace it with my response to you or even your first paragraph in that response to me. That's exactly what I was saying; its the phrasing you have a problem with.

Again, my "claim" was exactly what you said in your first paragraph.... so what if the water weight lost in PCT refers to test prop or dbol - using the dbol will make you gain weight rapidly at the beginning of the cycle and all of that size will be maintained - but you're right, it isn't just water weight come the end of the cycle, its actual tissue growth that has replaced the initial water weight gain. How a person sees this is as a "solidification of his gains" - because that is exactly what "seems" to be happening. Most people including this guy I'm sure will quantify his gains by weight - so what appears to be great "gains" - albeit water and muscle - in the beginning from Dbol will translate into a more solid, more muscle/less water by the end of a full twelve week cycle. On the same note, "gains" - albeit water and muscle - at the end of a cycle from dbol will not appear to have been as good as if taken at the beginning.

I didn't explain the fucking science to the guy; however, for the reasoning behind jumpstarting or ending with dbol, the phrase fits just fine.

I don't give a shit if you take me seriously.


#10

All I said is that "solidifying gains" is bro sceince.

What's not bro science is you make gains from dbol. THEN you make gains from testosterone/nadrolone/etc. I elaborated because your post called for it. I tend to call things as they as instead of using inaccurate phrases to describe a relatively simple concept. But that's just me.


#11

Alright, obviously I agree with that. It was a simple, harmless phrase used to sum up the fact that what you see as 'gains" from your dbol will remain as "gains" after the testosterone in the rest of the cycle creates its "gains". I didn't really think that phrase would be analyzed or discussed to such extent and as such didn't think it would receive nor deserved such criticism. But that's just me.


#12

I still dont think you understand.

The water weight gained from dbol is never 'gains' in the first place. Its water weight. The testosterone doesnt do anything to the tissue gained from the dbol alone.

The tissue gained from dbol is legitimate with or without any other drugs.

It seems like you are referring to scale weight when in reality, actual tissue growth is all that matters.

But dont feel compelled to answer furhter. You can think however youd like.


#13

If you haven't noticed, I keep putting "gains" in quotations. The reason I keep putting "gains" in quotations is because I'm referring to what many refer to as "gains" - a combination of tissue growth and water weight. I'm not saying this what I classify as "gains", I'm saying its what is often referred to as "gains" - simply stepping on a scale and classifying that weight gain as the "gains" from steroid use. Yes, you are correct, tissue growth is all that matters. But as I have previously stated, I believe the scale "gains" earned during a dbol kick-start will result throughout the course of a 12 week cycle to be more permanent actual, tissue gains at the end. In contrast, dbol used after the last two weeks before PCT will result in scale "gains" that won't be maintained. To someone that doesn't think about their cycle in terms of tissue growth but purely scale "gain", they would be more disappointed with using dbol at the end than at the beginning. That is what I believe.

So yes, I understand, tissue growth is what matters and water weight doesn't mean anything, except to one measuring results purely on a scale which was the point of that statement.

However, I do disagree with your statement: "The testosterone doesnt do anything to the tissue gained from the dbol alone." - this statement is simply false. Testosterone, natural or injected, is largely responsible for muscle maintenance and growth. Humor me and imagine someone without any natural testosterone production; If this person were to make gains from Dbol, and then stopped using Dbol, no tissue growth would be preserved due to a lack of testosterone in that persons system. So yes, test is responsible for maintaining muscle tissue, however it is earned, natural or enhanced. Yes, some tissue gain from dbol could be preserved by individuals with adequate natural test levels, but not nearly as much as continuing along with elevated testosterone levels post dbol tissue growth. A person without testosterone would not grow nor maintain muscle mass very well, if much at all. So yes, testosterone, whether injected or natural is a rather important part of any muscle mass you wish to maintain (including muscle growth caused by dbol).

Don't feel compelled to continue your condescension.

EDIT: How about this, you are right. I apologize for using an overly simplified expression and any misleading guidance it may have given to your forum's members.


#14

This is retarded. Obviously I was talking about the exogeneous testosterone. Why in the world would a hypothetical even discuss a situation where someone had NO testosterone (natural or supplemental).

Youre grabbing straws with that one.


#15

Wow, now thats breaking it down, I got a shitload of information! some really damn good info at that. You guys are brilliant, not just in your info but the way you put it down on the keyboard, like a court room brawl. I respect both your answers, thank you very much gentlemen!


#16

Nonetheless, it is true that any muscle gains from whatever substance would be lost without any testosterone in the body, albeit beyond rational consideration for practical, real-life application. But yes, I'll stop now.