Cytomel on Cycle

[quote]TheBeat wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I suggest you go to pub med and read up on T3. Stopping cold turkey at higher levels can cause trouble.

And your use of terms such as moronic is very insulting. Unless you can offer an alternative - you are just flapping your gums.

First you say go to Pubmed, then later call me Mr. Pubmed?

You say stopping cold turkey can cause trouble and later cause permanent thyroid damage, yet offer no proof or anything whatsoever to back yourself up.

You also say that unless I offer an alternative, I am just flapping my gums…but you are also saying that my advice is bad??? So I did offer an alternative, you just didn’t understand it.

I think that everyone who is interested in cytomel or the like, whether just an interest or especially if they plan on using it should spend more time on pubmed than the boards to get good advice, on the boards you have people trying to spout misinformation and act like they are telling others to go there(pubmed) when they have no understanding of thyroid themselves.[/quote]

Give it a rest kiddo. I qualified what I said with the words “at higher levels”. That would be higher than natural levels.

You are referring to levels at less than what the body produces.

See the difference? You have said nothing new, or even useful in this thread.

Have you ever read the warning labels on real cytomel? It states that misuse can cause permanent thyroid problems.

Maybe you should go hang out with Anthony Roberts. He’s a pub med whore who is wrong just about every time he opens his mouth.

Now - if you have nothing else to do but rehash week old posts - I believe This issue is a dead one.

After a lengthy PM detailing how full of shit I am - I feel compelled to post the very reason why I think it is a good idea to taper on, and taper off T3. It comes from William Llewellyn’s Anabolics 2006, page 335.

"When administering Cytomel, one must remember to increase the dosage slowly…The daily dose is also to be split evenly throughout the day, in an effort to keep blood levels steadier.

And in the next paragraph, the proof on which I think any wise use of T3 should be based upon:

[b]It is important to stress that a cycle should last no longer than 6 weeks and it shoud NEVER (emphasis added) be halted abruptly. As slowly as the dosage was built up, it should also be lowered. TAKING CYTOMEL FOR TOO LONG AND/OR TOO HIGH A DOSAGE CAN RESULT IN A PERMANENT THYROID DEFICIENCY.[/b]

Now - the choice is yours. You can take a chance on Pub Med Boy’s risky cutting edge protocol, or you can play it safe.

I would choose the latter, personally.

OK after reading everything post I think I’ll offer up what I have concluded, and I am in no way taking sides between you two pitbulls.

I think that tapering down would 1) not hurt you in anyway and 2) would be good to err on the side of caution.

It seems the following info supports the conclusion that stopping cold turkey would be fine however the info is from 1951! It’s a bit out dated to say the least but none the less is interesting:

"An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.

Here is a remark about Greer’s classic paper from a later author:

"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine.

He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3) "

The only other thing I would question is how Greer determined that these subjects were misdiagonsed. I would question that infact some of them did need the treatment and after 30yrs of getting T3 their levels were normal.

So more or less I can see TheBeats points in tapering up but not off, however I see no facts that tapering down is harmful.

Man that was a lot of yelling and such for a drug that burns muscle as well lol

Just imho but if you dont think you need to taper both up down while taking a thyriod hormone such as T3, dont take the product in the first place.

The reference cited by rainjack is enough reason in my opinion to follow this protocol.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
After a lengthy PM detailing how full of shit I am - I feel compelled to post the very reason why I think it is a good idea to taper on, and taper off T3.[/quote]

So others feel the same way I do about you. Caus’ I know for a fact that you aren’t talking about my PM to you.

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
OK after reading everything post I think I’ll offer up what I have concluded, and I am in no way taking sides between you two pitbulls.

I think that tapering down would 1) not hurt you in anyway and 2) would be good to err on the side of caution.

It seems the following info supports the conclusion that stopping cold turkey would be fine however the info is from 1951! It’s a bit out dated to say the least but none the less is interesting:

"An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.

Here is a remark about Greer’s classic paper from a later author:

"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine.

He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3) "

The only other thing I would question is how Greer determined that these subjects were misdiagonsed. I would question that infact some of them did need the treatment and after 30yrs of getting T3 their levels were normal.

So more or less I can see TheBeats points in tapering up but not off, however I see no facts that tapering down is harmful.

Man that was a lot of yelling and such for a drug that burns muscle as well lol
[/quote]
Your right, the extent of the whole arguement got rather rediculous. I’m glad that at least one other person can be rational as well as understand thyroid hormones above most.

You know, although I do appreciate everybodys input, nobody answered my post.lol. I have taken cytomel before while on diet and BTW completely agree with RJ.

My question…however…was anybodys thought on relevance as far as metabolism, protein synthesis goes while on cycle, ie getting more out of your stack from cytomel as a result of increased metabolism. Again thankx guys but maybe this will put the thread in a different light.

from the limited amount I have read on the subject it wouldn’t appear that it would help you get any more muscle out of your cycle only help to reduce body fat while on the cycle. It appears you need to be on the cycle while doing the T3 so that you can simply keep your muscle, not get anything extra out of it.

[quote]TheBeat wrote:
…and many find an increase in muscle with cytomel use when the doses are kept reasonable - concurrent with AAS use; of course this does not apply to those taking 200mcg/day and of course is dose dependant with the individual.[/quote]

Sorry, I think everyone got lost in the whole thing.

I personally do find that running Cytomel while on a cycle helps with many aspects; both in relation to increased muscle gains and/or in fat loss. Going much above 100mcg and I notice some muscle weakness that Tren can’t counter.

No problem Ahhh The Beat has it, that is the kind of response I was looking for guys. That was what I was curious about wether or not it is worth introducing into a cycle for fatloss AND muscle gains.

As I said back on the first page - the only way to maintain muscle mass while on cytomel is to be on AAS.

The increased metabolism makes no distinction between fat and muscle. Steroids will help preserve mass and you will burn more fat.

Seeing numbers like 300, 400, and even 500 makes me realize that people use T3 to a hell of a lot higher dosage than I ever have. I don’t think I’ve ever dosed at over 100mcg/day, and even that felt like a redundant overkill substituting what low intensity cardio could have done. In response to the original topic, and in accordance with rainjack’s general response, I do agree that AAS should be taken when taking incorporating T3.

However, I have recently experienced with adding T3 to a diet which was, at most, mildly aggressive without any AAS. Perhaps my macronutrient breakdown helped, perhaps it was the low dosages used ( < 100mcg any given day) or even the fact it was a moderate diet over a longer period of time; my overall lean muscle mass didn’t drop considerably (only a loss of 1.2lb). Because of this I’m inclined to believe that the combination of AAS + T3 is highly preferred, but not an inherent necessity.

Thanks Control