Wanted to see anybody's opinion on taking cytomel while on cycle, effecting protein synthesis, metabolism,etc..
Cytomel definately does what you have read. However its a very strong hormone and must be used correctly regarding dosage and protocol.
Its definately not a drug where more is better. Some steroids will actually downregulate your thyroid where a low dose of t3 can be rather beneficial.
I was thinking of a slow taper from 25mcg to 100mcg and back over a 6 week period next cycle. Thanks for the post
That's way old-school and illogical, commonly suggested by those who don't know better, but still illogical ---- Not a attack at you at all, just tired of this old-hat non-sense being tossed around the 'net like gospel - I know you got it from somewhere.
The taper up time is to adjust to tolerance and the suppression of enogenous levels.
The taper off is moronic at best. I do however see reason to taper at and below common endogenous levels, commonly around 25mcg, and start to taper at that dose. But this is of my opinion - studies and fact lead towards none being needed.
I know many that have done the same. Depending on the compounds you use and when you use the in the cycle may make you decision easier.
Another protocol is to just run 25mcg throughout the cycle.
Im gonna ramp up and down in a three week period with a three week break and repeat. However only going to 75 mcg max.
Just curious as to why you are deciding to run it this way? Explain the ramp up and why, and especially the ramp down and why? I am always trying to improve my knowledge and understanding, like I said in my post, it doesn't make sense to me and therefore I want someone to explain it to me.
It is good idea to be on AAS of some sort while on the cytomel.
Why? Because the increase in metabolism you get makes no distinction between burning muscle, and burning fat. You can wind up losing weight, but not change you body comp at all.
AAS will spare the muscle so you will burn more fat.
Agreed, and many find an increase in muscle with cytomel use when the doses are kept reasonable - concurrent with AAS use; of course this does not apply to those taking 200mcg/day and of course is dose dependant with the individual.
From my understanding it must be ramped up and down to the way the drug effects the body. If you do not ramp down after you are at the 75-100mcg mark your thyroid may not come back to your previous normal levels and you may have to actually use a thyroid drug of some sort for the rest of your life.
Im sure that there is a more technical response that someone else can give, but this is my understanding.
I suggest you go to pub med and read up on T3. Stopping cold turkey at higher levels can cause trouble.
And your use of terms such as moronic is very insulting. Unless you can offer an alternative - you are just flapping your gums.
I think your understanding of T3 is much better than Mr. Pre-Med.
Yeah tapering up but not down didn't make much sense to me either. Dropping levels that quickly can lead to a crash where you could be dependent on thyroid drugs to regulate it the rest of your life. It seems like more common sense than anything....although I could be wrong. Mainly I was curious about cytomel use with AAS and the benefits of an increased metabolism.
you should be able to achieve your goals going no higher then 75mcg i would probably add some clen.
You are right Rainjack, I was being a dick, I meant nothing towards T-Mia in that respect and am sorry for the tone I had. I did offer an alternative and am and was willing to offer any more and explain more if someone was interested or asked. Sorry to T-Mia.
My reason for only tapering at and below endogenous levels is multi faceted: What sense and purpose does going from 200mcg and slowly tapering to 50mcg offer anyone, it doesn't protect the thyroid which is suppressed anyway. Now starting your taper at around 25mcg and working down allows a smoother transition period, and as stated is what I personally do as do 3 other people I know.
The thyroid also doesn't say to itself "this guy dropped his dose to fast, screw him, I'm going to stay shut down or mess with him!" The thyroid works in a negative-feedback loop simular to steroids. Does going from 500mg to 300mg offer an assistance to recovering your HPTA? I think not, but from tapering down from let's say 100mg or maybe more it does allow for a smoother transition.
Here's a link to a word file with a great article on Thyroid hormone use for weight loss, it explains things very well with real-world studies on recovery and other issues - it can be a little hard to read, so feel free to ask any questions on anything not understood.
My attentions is to help people and one reason why I am so selective with my posts and do not respond to many posts is that I only respond to issues on my mind and almost always only with first-hand experience with them.
OK, don't see how to attach a link, so I'll post it in the next space.
Thyroid Hormone for Weight Loss:
Physiologic and Metabolic Effects
by Karl Hoffman
Editors Note: We are extremely pleased to have Nandi contributing an article for us this month (and, hopefully, many to come). One of the main things Mind and Muscle was missing was a regular "anabolics guy" -- and, now, assuming things go as expected for all parties, we have found ourselves one of the very best out there.
For those who are unaware, Nandi, in addition to being what I consider a top 5 mind in this arena, is the owner of Cutting Edge Muscle, the premiere Anabolics board on the internet. It is far and away the closest thing to our forums as far as quality of info, atmosphere, etc. - I had, in fact, approached Nandi to run our anabolics board, before he formed CEM, but got busy and dropped the ball).
If any of you have not seen it, I strongly, strongly recommend that you head over to their website and do a good deal of reading (but only after you have finished reading M&M and our forums, of course
It has been over 100 years since the discovery by Magnus-Levy that thyroid hormones play a central role in energy homeostasis, and 75 years since the hormones were first used for weight loss. Despite this great length of time, the precise mechanisms by which thyroid hormones exert their calorigenic effect are not completely characterized, and still actively debated. Despite numerous clinical studies having shown that the administration of thyroid hormone induces weight loss, it is not currently indicated as a weight loss agent. This is probably due to the number of side effects observed during thyroid hormone use at the relatively high doses used in the majority of obesity treatment studies. These deleterious effects include cardiac problems such as tachycardia and atrial arrhythmias, loss of muscle mass as well as fat, increased bone resorption and muscle weakness. Nevertheless, thyroid hormones, particularly triiodothyronine (T3) are a mainstay in the arsenal of drugs used by bodybuilders for fat loss. The widespread underground use of T3 warrants an understanding of its mechanism of action, as well as a knowledge of how it is most effectively and safely used, with an eye to minimizing side effects.
Thyroid Function and Physiology
Before jumping right into a discussion of the use of thyroid hormone for fat loss, a little review of thyroid function and physiology might be in order. The thyroid gland secretes two hormones of interest to us, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3). T3 is considered the physiologically active hormone, and T4 is converted peripherally into T3 by the action of the enzyme deiodinase. The bulk of the body's T3 (about 80%) comes from this conversion. The secretion of T4 is under the control of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) which is produced by the pituitary gland. TSH secretion is in turn controlled through release of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone which is produced in the hypothalamus. This is analogous to testosterone production, where GnRH from the hypothalamus causes the pituitary to release LH, which in turn stimulates the testes to produce testosterone.
In addition to T3, it has recently been recognized that there exist two additional active metabolites of T3: 3,5 and 3,3' diiodothyronines, which we will collectively call T2. Studies have shown that 3,3'-T2 may be more effective in raising resting metabolic rate when hypothyroid subjects are treated with T3, than when normal (euthyroid) subjects are given T3. Therefore in normal subjects 3,5-T2 may be the principal active metabolite of T3 (1)
Like the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis, the thyroid gland is under negative feedback control. When T3 levels go up, TSH secretion is suppressed. This is the mechanism whereby exogenous thyroid hormone suppresses natural thyroid hormone production. There is a difference though between the way anabolic steroids suppress natural testosterone production and the way T3 suppresses the thyroid. With steroids, the longer and heavier the cycle is, the longer your natural testosterone is suppressed. This is not the case with exogenous thyroid hormone.
An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.
Here is a remark about Greer's classic paper from a later author:
"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3)
These results have been subsequently verified in several studies.(3)(4) So contrary to what has been stated in the bodybuilding literature, there is no evidence that long term thyroid supplementation will somehow damage your thyroid gland. Nevertheless, most bodybuilders will choose to cycle their T3 (or T4 which in most cases works just as well) as part of a cutting strategy, since T3 is catabolic with respect to muscle just as it is with fat. As previously mentioned, long term T3 induced hyperthyroidism is also catabolic to bone as well as muscle.
The proviso about T4 vs T3 for weight loss alluded to above needs some elaboration. There have been a number of studies that have shown that during starvation, or when carbohydrate intake is reduced to approximately 25 to 50 grams per day, levels of deiodinase decline, hindering the conversion of T4 to the physiologically active T3.(5) From an evolutionary standpoint this makes sense: during periods of starvation the body, teleologically speaking, would like to reduce its basal metabolic rate to preserve fat and especially muscle stores. However, a recent study demonstrating the effectiveness and safety of the ketogenic diet for weight loss recorded no change in circulating T3 levels.(6) So this issue not completely settled. Nevertheless, persons contemplating thyroid supplementation during ketogenic dieting might prefer T3 over T4 since the bulk of the research does suggest a decline in the peripheral conversion of T4 to T3 during low carb dieting.
Now that we have reviewed a little about thyroid function, let's consider just how it is that thyroid hormone exerts its fat burning effects.
Increased Oxidative Energy Metabolism
Thyroid hormone has long been recognized as a major regulator of the oxidative metabolism of energy producing substrates (food or stored substrates like fat, muscle, and glycogen) by the mitochondria. The mitochondria are often called the "cell's powerhouses" because this is where foodstuffs are turned into useful energy in the form of ATP. T3 and T2 increase the flux of nutrients into the mitochondria as well as the rate at which they are oxidized, by increasing the activities of the enzymes involved in the oxidative metabolic pathway. The increased rate of oxidation is reflected by an increase in oxygen consumption by the body.
T3 and T2 appear to act by different mechanisms to produce different results. T2 is believed to act on the mitochondria directly, increasing the rate of mitochondrial respiration, with a consequent increase in ATP production. T3 on the other hand acts at the nuclear level, inducing the transcription of genes controlling energy metabolism, primarily the genes for so-called uncoupling proteins, or UCP (see below). The time course of these two actions is quite different. T2 begins to increase mitochondrial respiration and metabolic rate immediately. T3 on the other hand requires a day or longer to increase RMR since the synthesis of new proteins, the UCP, is required (1).
There are a number of putative mechanisms whereby T2 is believed to increase mitochondrial energy production rates, resulting in increased ATP levels. These include an increased influx of Ca++ into the mitochondria, with a resulting increase in mitochondrial dehydrogenases. This in turn would lead to an increase in reduced substrates available for oxidation. An increase in cytochrome oxidase activity has also been observed. This would hasten the reduction of O2, speeding up respiration. These and a number of other proposed mechanisms for the action of T2 are reviewed by Lannie et al.(7)
What is the fate of the extra ATP produced during hyperthyroidism? There are a number of ways by which the increased ATP promotes an increase in metabolic activity, including the following:
Increased Na+/K+ATPase. This is the enzyme responsible for controlling the Na/K pump, which regulates the relative intracellular and extracellular concentrations of these ions, maintaining the normal transmembrane ion gradient. Sestoft(7) has estimated this effect may account for up to to 10% of the increased ATP usage.
Increased Ca++-dependent ATPase. The intracellular concentration of calcium must be kept lower than the extracellular concentration to maintain normal cellular function. ATP is required to pump out excess calcium. It has been estimated that 10% of a cell's energy expenditure is used just to maintain Ca++ homeostasis. (1)
Substrate cycling. Hyperthyroidism induces a futile cycle of lipogenesis/lipolysis in fat cells. The stored triglycerides are broken down into free fatty acids and glycerol, then reformed back into triglycerides again. This is an energy dependent process that utilizes some of the excess ATP produced in the hyperthyroid state (8). Futile cycling has been estimated to use approximately 15% of the excess ATP created during hyperthyroidism (8)
Increased Heart Work. This puts perhaps the greatest single demand on ATP usage, with increased heart rate and force of contraction accounting for up to 30% to 40% of ATP usage in hyperthyroidism (9)
As mentioned, the mitochondria are often characterized as the cell's powerhouse. They convert foodstuffs into ATP, which is used to fuel all the body's metabolic processes. Much research suggests that T3, like another much more potent agent DNP, has the ability to uncouple oxidation of substrates from ATP production. T3 is believed to increase the production of so called uncoupling proteins. Uncoupling protein (UCP) is a transporter family that is present in the mitochondrial inner membrane, and as its name suggests, it uncouples respiration from ATP synthesis by dissipating the transmembrane proton gradient as heat. Instead of useful ATP being produced from energy substrates, heat is generated instead. There are conflicting studies about the importance of T3 induced uncoupling. Animal studies have demonstrated an actual increase in ATP production commensurate with increased oxygen consumption as we discussed above. Other studies in humans have shown that in fact uncoupling in skeletal muscle does occur. This would contribute to T3 induced thermogenesis, with a resulting increase in basal metabolic rate.(10)
To make up for the deficit in ATP production (as well as provide fuel for the extra ATP production discussed above) more substrates must be burned for fuel, resulting in fat loss. Unfortunately, along with the fat that is burned, some protein from muscle is also catabolized for energy. This is the downside of T3 use, and the reason many people choose to use an anabolic steroid or prohormone during a T3 cycle to help preserve muscle mass. Studies have shown this to be an effective strategy (11). (Muscle glycogen is also more rapidly depleted, and less efficiently stored during hyperthyroidism. This may account for some of the muscle weakness generally associated with T3 use.)
Countering T3 induced muscle loss with AAS or prohormones makes sense from a physiological viewpoint as well. Thyroid hormone muscle protein breakdown is mainly mediated via the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway. (12). (There are several independent metabolic pathways of protein breakdown in the body. For instance, another pathway, the lysosomal pathway, is responsible for the accelerated rate of muscle protein breakdown during and after exercise.) Testosterone administration has been shown to decrease ubiquitin-proteasome activity. (13) So AAS specifically target the muscle protein breakdown process stimulated by T3.
What may not be an effective strategy to maintain muscle mass during a T3 cycle is the use of exogenous growth hormone (GH). Studies have shown that when GH and T3 are administered concurrently, the increased nitrogen retention normally associated with GH use is abolished. This has been attributed to the observation that T3 increases levels of insulin like growth factor binding protein, reducing the bioavailability of igf-1 (14). Nevertheless, GH has fat burning properties independent of igf-1, so using GH with T3 would act additively to speed fat burning, but with little if any preservation of lean body mass. So again, if GH is used in conjunction with T3, anabolic steroid/prohormone use would be indicated.
Andregenic Receptor Modulation
Administration of T3 has been shown to upregulate the so-called beta 2 adrenergic receptor in fat tissue. What is the significance of this effect for fat loss? Before fat can be used as fuel, it must be mobilized from the fat cells where it is stored. An enzyme called Hormone Sensitive Lipase (HSL) is the rate-controlling enzyme in lipolysis, or fat mobilization. The body produces two catecholamines, epinephrine and norepinephrine, which bind to the beta 2 receptor and activate HSL. The upregulation of the beta 2 receptor due to T3 results in an increased ability of catecholamines to activate HSL, leading to increased lipolysis.
Bodybuilders often use drugs like clenbuterol, which bind to the beta 2 receptors and activate them in the same way as the body's endogenous catecholamines. The use of clenbuterol along with T3 can produce an additive lipolytic effect: T3 increases the number of receptors, while clenbuterol binds to the receptors activating HSL and increasing lipolysis. Since clenbuterol itself downregulates the beta 2 receptor, most bodybuilders use clenbuterol in a two week on/ two week off cycle, the rationale being that this minimizes downregulation and allows receptor recovery. Another option is to use the antihistamine ketotifen concurrently with the clenbuterol. Studies have shown that ketotifen attenuates the beta 2 receptor downregulation caused by clenbuterol (15). Moreover, research in AIDS patients has shown that ketotifen blocks the production of the proinflammatory and catabolic cytokine TNF-alpha (16). This may be of relevance to bodybuilders since there is evidence showing TNF lowers both testosterone and IGF-1 levels quite significantly (17) (18), while strenuous exercise elevates TNF levels. (19)
Besides increasing beta 2 receptor density in adipose tissue, T3 upregulates this receptor in human skeletal muscle (12). This has some very intriguing if somewhat speculative implications for the combined use of clenbuterol and T3. Animal studies have shown that catecholamines, particularly clenbuterol, inhibit Ca++ dependent skeletal muscle proteolysis (20). Like the lysosomal and ubiquitin-proteasome pathways discussed above, Ca++ regulated proteolysis is yet another way for the body to degrade muscle protein. Again the implications are enticing: Increased beta 2 receptor density from T3 use, coupled with the beta 2 agonist clenbuterol, could slow this pathway of muscle catabolism.
Another adrenergic receptor important to lipolysis is the alpha 2 receptor, which impedes fat mobilization by counteracting the effects of the beta 2 receptor. There are some conflicting studies about the effects of T3 on the alpha 2 receptor, with studies showing either a downregulation (21) or no effect (22). If T3 does in fact downregulate alpha 2 receptors, this would further aid lipolysis.
Studies in rats have shown that inducing hyperthyroidism increases the lipolytic beta 3 receptor density in white adipose tissue by 70% (23). Beta 3 receptors are abundant in human white adipose tissue as well, and if T3 administration has the same effect in humans, this could could contribute significantly to T3 induced fat loss. This might also argue for taking a currently available beta 3 agonist such as octopamine along with T3 and perhaps clenbuterol.
Decreased Phosphodiesterase Expression
In hyperthyroid patients as well as in normal subjects given T3, levels of the enzyme phosphodiesterase are lowered in fat cells (20). When lipolytic hormones like epinephrine (adrenaline) bind to the beta 2 receptor described above, they initiate a signaling cascade mediated by the so called â¿¿second messengerâ¿¿ cyclic AMP (cAMP). cAMP in turn acts on other cellular enzymes to initiate and maintain lipolysis. The original signal is terminated when cAMP is degraded by the enzyme phosphodiesterase. Clearly, maintaining elevated cAMP levels, by lowering phosphodiesterase concentrations with T3, will prolong lipolysis.
As an aside, caffeine is thought to exert at least a portion of its lipolytic action by lowering phosphodiesterase in fat cells. Interestingly, Viagra and Cialis are also phosphodiesterase inhibitors but their action seems to be limited to relaxing vascular smooth muscles.
Increased Growth Hormone Secretion
In vitro, animal, and human studies have all demonstrated that T3 administration increases growth hormone production. (24)(25) Since GH is calorigenic aside from any increase in igf-1, elevated GH may contribute to some of the fat burning associated with T3 administration. This effect may obviate the need for the use of expensive recombinant HGH, as mentioned above.
Decreased Insulin Secretion
Insulin is well known as a lipogenic hormone. It promotes fat storage by facilitating the uptake of fatty acids by adipocytes, and reducing lipid oxidation in muscle tissue. Several studies have shown that thyroid hormone is associated with glucose intolerance resulting from decreased glucose stimulated insulin secretion (26).
This defect in insulin secretion is believed to result from an increase in the rate of apoptosis (programmed cell death) of pancreatic beta cells as a direct effect of thyroid hormone excess.(27) This process is reversible, since when thyroid hormone is withdrawn the rate of beta cell replication increases until homeostasis returns. However, there are conflicting studies regarding the effects of T3 on insulin. For example, Dimitriadis et al (28) showed a decrease in glucose stimulated insulin secretion, consistent with (25), but an increase in basal insulin. They also observed increased insulin clearance, with a compensatory increase in basal insulin secretion.
So if in fact the hyperthyroid state is associated with lower insulin levels, this could explain a portion of hyperthyroid stimulated lipolysis. The obvious downside here is that insulin is also an anabolic hormone. Basal insulin concentration is thought to limit the action of the ubiquitin-proteasome degradative pathway of muscle protein breakdown (29). Of course supplementing with insulin during T3 use would be counterproductive. However, as mentioned above, anabolic steroids inhibit ubiquitin-proteasome activity, so their use could counter any loss in muscle anabolism resulting from a drop insulin levels.
As mentioned at the beginning of this article, a major roadblock in the adoption of T3 by the medical community as an antiobesity agent is its deleterious effect on the heart. Recent research has identified two isoforms of the thyroid hormone receptor, TRalpha and TRbeta. The TRalpha-form may preferentially regulate the heart rate, and an experimental agent, GC-1, has been developed that selectively binds the TRbeta receptor, with minimal effects on the heart (30). The distribution and actions of TRalpha and TRbeta throughout the body are not yet well characterized. However should it turn out that TRalpha is specific to the heart, then drugs like GC-1 may turn out to be effective fat burning agents with a much safer profile that T3 or T4.
One alleged â¿¿futuristicâ¿¿ agent that is here now is T2, or 3,5-Di-iodo-L-thyronine, the T3 metabolite discussed above. Unfortunately, this product does not live up to its hype. It has been claimed to be as or more effective that T3 for fat burning with minimal suppression of endogenous thyroid production. Regarding the relative effectiveness of T2 as a lipolytic agent, and its effect on TSH, this topic was thoroughly covered in a recent article by Bryan Haycock in Muscle Monthly:
All of my research into this subject has led me to the same conclusion reached by Mr. Haycock. That is, T2 is only slightly less suppressive of TSH than is T3, and only packs a portion of the lipolytic punch of T3, with no ability to increase the expression of the UCPs, which is a major determinant of the action of thyroid hormone.
We have discussed a number of ways by which T3, and its active metabolite T2 act to increase resting energy expenditure. Also discussed were some drawbacks of T3 use, such as cardiac stress, as well as the potential loss of muscle mass. It is ironic that the latter may be of more concern to many bodybuilders that the other more serious potential impacts on health. Nevertheless, used moderately and for short periods (a couple of months or less) in people with no preexisting cardiovascular disease T3 has a relatively safe medical profile, compared to other lipolytic agents like DNP. Perhaps most importantly we have presented substantial evidence that even the long-term use of supraphysiological levels of T3 does not damage the thyroid gland.
And here's the references for the article:
(1) Endocrinology 2002 Feb;143(2):504-10 Are the effects of T3 on resting metabolic rate in euthyroid rats entirely caused by T3 itself? Moreno M, Lombardi A, Beneduce L, Silvestri E, Pinna G, Goglia F, Lanni A.
(2)(Greer,M. N Engl J Med 244:385, 1951)
(3)N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4 Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy. Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.
(4) J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1975 Jul;41(1):70-80 Patterns off recovery of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis in patients taken of chronic thyroid therapy. Krugman LG, Hershman JM, Chopra IJ, Levine GA, Pekary E, Geffner DL, Chua Teco GN
(5) Int J Obes 1983;7(2):123-31 The effect of a low-calorie diet alone and in combination with triiodothyronine therapy on weight loss and hypophyseal thyroid function in obesity. Koppeschaar HP, Meinders AE, Schwarz F.
(6) Am J Med 2002 Jul;113(1):30-6 Effect of 6-month adherence to a very low carbohydrate diet program. Westman EC, Yancy WS, Edman JS, Tomlin KF, Perkins CE.
(7) J Endocrinol Invest 2001 Dec;24(11):897-913 Control of energy metabolism by iodothyronines.
Lanni A, Moreno M, Lombardi A, de Lange P, Goglia F
(8) Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1980 Nov;13(5):489-506 Metabolic aspects of the calorigenic effect of thyroid hormone in mammals. Sestoft L.
(9)Annu Rev Nutr 1995;15:263-91 Thermogenesis and thyroid function. Freake HC, Oppenheimer JH.
(10) J Clin Invest 2001 Sep;108(5):733-7 Effect of triiodothyronine on mitochondrial energy coupling in human skeletal muscle. Lebon V, Dufour S, Petersen KF, Ren J, Jucker BM, Slezak LA, Cline GW, Rothman DL, Shulman GI.
(11)J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1999 Jan;84(1):207-12 Testosterone administration preserves protein balance but not muscle strength during 28 days of bed rest. Zachwieja JJ, Smith SR, Lovejoy JC, Rood JC, Windhauser MM, Bray GA.
(12) Genome Res 2002 Feb;12(2):281-91 In vivo regulation of human skeletal muscle gene expression by thyroid hormone. Clement K, Viguerie N, Diehn M, Alizadeh A, Barbe P, Thalamas C, Storey JD, Brown PO, Barsh GS, Langin D.
(13) J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2003 Jan;88(1):358-62 Related Articles, Links Differential anabolic effects of testosterone and amino Acid feeding in older men. Ferrando AA, Sheffield-Moore M, Paddon-Jones D, Wolfe RR, Urban RJ.
(14) J Hepatol 1996 Mar;24(3):313-9 Effects of long-term growth hormone (GH) and triiodothyronine (T3) administration on functional hepatic nitrogen clearance in normal man. Wolthers T, Grofte T, Moller N, Vilstrup H, Jorgensen JO.
(15) Cardiovasc Res 1998 Oct;40(1):211-22 Terbutaline-induced desensitization of human cardiac beta 2-adrenoceptor-mediated positive inotropic effects: attenuation by ketotifen. Poller U, Fuchs B, Gorf A, Jakubetz J, Radke J, Ponicke K, Brodde OE.
(16) Eur J Clin Pharmacol 1996;50(3):167-70 Ketotifen in HIV-infected patients: effects on body weight and release of TNF-alpha. Ockenga J, Rohde F, Suttmann U, Herbarth L, Ballmaier M, Schedel I.
(17)Endocrinology 1998 Jun;139(6):2863-8 Tumor necrosis factor-alpha inhibits leydig cell steroidogenesis through a decrease in steroidogenic acute regulatory protein expression. Mauduit C, Gasnier F, Rey C, Chauvin MA, Stocco DM, Louisot P, Benahmed M.
(18) Growth Horm IGF Res 2001 Aug;11(4):250-60 Tissue-specific regulation of IGF-I and IGF-binding proteins in response to TNFalpha. Lang CH, Nystrom GJ, Frost RA.
(19) Exerc Immunol Rev 2001;7:18-31 Exercise and cytokines with particular focus on muscle-derived IL-6. Pedersen BK, Steensberg A, Fischer C, Keller C, Ostrowski K, Schjerling P.
(20) Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Sep;281(3):E449-54 Catecholamines inhibit Ca(2+)-dependent proteolysis in rat skeletal muscle through beta(2)-adrenoceptors and cAMP. Navegantes LC, Resano NM, Migliorini RH, Kettelhut IC
(21) J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2002 Feb;87(2):630-4 Regulation of human adipocyte gene expression by thyroid hormone Viguerie N, Millet L, Avizou S, Vidal H, Larrouy D, Langin D.
(22) Metabolism 1987 Nov;36(11):1031-9 Alpha 2- and beta-adrenergic receptor binding and action in gluteal adipocytes from patients with hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism. Richelsen B, Sorensen NS
(23) Br J Pharmacol 2000 Feb;129(3):448-56 Regulation of beta 1- and beta 3-adrenergic agonist-stimulated lipolytic response in hyperthyroid and hypothyroid rat white adipocytes. Germack R, Starzec A, Perret GY
(24) Braz J Med Biol Res 1994 May;27(5):1269-72 Role of thyroid hormone in the control of growth hormone gene expression. Volpato CB, Nunes MT.
(25) Am J Physiol 1999 Aug;277(2 Pt 1):E370-9 Related Articles, Links Low-dose T(3) improves the bed rest model of simulated weightlessness in men and women. Lovejoy JC, Smith SR, Zachwieja JJ, Bray GA, Windhauser MM, Wickersham PJ, Veldhuis JD, Tulley R, de la Bretonne JA.
(26) Life Sci 2002 Jul 19;71(9):1059-70 Evidence for a deficient pancreatic beta-cell response in a rat model of hyperthyroidism. Fukuchi M, Shimabukuro M, Shimajiri Y, Oshiro Y, Higa M, Akamine H, Komiya I, Takasu N.
(27) Diabetologia 2002 Jun;45(6):851-5 Thyroxine induces pancreatic beta cell apoptosis in rats.
Jorns A, Tiedge M, Lenzen S.
(28) Am J Physiol 1985 May;248(5 Pt 1):E593-601 Effect of thyroid hormone excess on action, secretion, and metabolism of insulin in humans.= Dimitriadis G, Baker B, Marsh H, Mandarino L, Rizza R, Bergman R, Haymond M, Gerich J
(29) Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 2000 Jan;3(1):67-71 Effects of insulin on muscle tissue.
(30) J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 2001 Jan-Mar;76(1-5):31-42 Selective modulation of thyroid hormone receptor action. Baxter JD, Dillmann WH, West BL, Huber R, Furlow JD, Fletterick RJ, Webb P, Apriletti JW, Scanlan TS.
Llewellyn states otherwise.
How can it be moronic to err on the side of safety?
Your advice could lead to permanent thyroid damage.
I'd much rather be an old school moron with a functioning thyroid.
What does Llewellyn state about an Cytomel cycle Recently exactly.
It is not moronic to err on the side of safety, again I am sorry for using such terms, but at the same time it is best to optimize and utilize things wisely and to their best potential.
Please share how exactly my advice of tapering only at and below regular endogenous levels would cause thyroid damage. Please. This is very important to me and I'm am sure others.
All the science and empirical data I see seems to dictate towards my advice.
I personally enjoy being a new-school intelligent person with a functioning thyroid.
(PLEASE NOTE: This is meant for and as a discussion)
Here's something from RxList regarding Cytomel:
"Administration of thyroid hormone in doses higher than those produced physiologically by the gland results in suppression of the production of endogenous hormone"
So what we see is that the thyroid gland is suppressed at levels above endogenous production levels... Any level BELOW that, being not 100% suppressive, allows for recovery to start; ANY level above that is.... well just a high amount of thyroid hormone whether it's 100mcg or 200mcg - 100% suppression: and one thing to think about, wouldn't one think that, if anything, a supraphysiological level of T3 would be more damaging to the thyroid than dropping from 100mcg to 25-50mcg....gasp!
I doubt many actually read the article I posted, but read the summery at the bottom and if that interest you, go back and read some more.
I actually use Cytomel quite often and get more blood work done in a year than most do in their entire steroid using time-frame, and offer my advice based on personal experience and science - not what others re-hash. I can promise that my thyroid is fine and always experiences a re-bound effect into higher than normal at first.
I can also tell you that people have been completely thyroid suppressed through thyroid hormone for over TWO YEARS and experienced 100% recovery in as little as 3 weeks and never more than a couple of months - and get this.... they didn't TAPER!!!!.
But I will say that this is not to say that people should be reckless with it either, it is a hormone/medication and should not be abused senselessly, or waste weeks going from one supraphysiological level to another.
First you say go to Pubmed, then later call me Mr. Pubmed?
You say stopping cold turkey can cause trouble and later cause permanent thyroid damage, yet offer no proof or anything whatsoever to back yourself up.
You also say that unless I offer an alternative, I am just flapping my gums....but you are also saying that my advice is bad????? So I did offer an alternative, you just didn't understand it.
I think that everyone who is interested in cytomel or the like, whether just an interest or especially if they plan on using it should spend more time on pubmed than the boards to get good advice, on the boards you have people trying to spout misinformation and act like they are telling others to go there(pubmed) when they have no understanding of thyroid themselves.