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CYRUSEVEN'S Ol' Lady's Contest Prep


#1

so my better half - the smarter, pound for pound stronger and prettier, she's not quite as funny as i am though, well..she's dieting for a Natty bodybuilding show. it will be her first one, we tried last May but the show was cancelled a few days prior to so it was scrapped...

anyway, this is RANT intended for Stu in a PM but, i've decided to pull it and list it her in the Bodybuilding forum. it's is about her cals, and carb cycle as we begin to prep. it's adry run now through the new year, then we'll back off a bit, and do again. the show is in March 2012.

here is the cut/paste message i was going to send, it starts w/ me saying congrats to stu on his recent engagement, don't let it throw ya. i'' post a few pics and perhaps some progress shots along the way. she's a bit more privvate than i so i'll blur out some if i have too.

it's tough to shit where you eat as well. god knows i've requested nudes and written a dirty letter or two to a few t-vixens, that said male and female input would be great and useful.


first off, hello, hope training and life are going well, congrats to you and your lady, awesome!

DISCLAIMER - send me a bill for answering the questions.

Brief and two things...my girl is starting to diet for a show we are planning in March 2012. we are making a dry run to get down as near lean as she can then back off some before a prep for the show.

she is @138lbs right now but holding way more muscle while being lean this off-season. her face is lean, shoulders are vascular, waist and legs (legs being her weight holding area) are leaner than when she was even 5-7lbs lighter last go around.

last time we made it to a few days out, before learning her show was cancelled. to be honest, brutally...her legs, hams, ass need to be leaner, even then she could have been smaller w/ less bf. this is where being the boyfriend, guy, lover dude and the advisor is TOUGH. i love her butt as is, not a fan of striated glutes on women, but for the sake of what she's doing we want to get as lean as we can. she needs her legs to be leaner, last go around she knew it too though. her legs look good but as a former carb loving soccer player, her legs are thicker than her upper half.

anyway, being brief, yeah right. we are using a basic structure from CT's carb/calorie cycle -playbook. dropping her BMR inclusive of her execise/training level by 20% then calculating puts us at a level whereby - high days she's above her need a bit, moderate days will look the same, low days (3 per week) will be lower than they are now. calorically speaking.

the adjustments will push her carbs high on 2 days, the same as they seem to be now for 2 moderate days and lower than they are now on the low days. proteins and fat will ideally remain constant, her P will go up w/ this new diet, her F will be decreasing...we'll see.

right now she's remained @138lb w/ her clean diet as is. she is leaner than she's been so despite not moving the scale she looks far greater @ this weight than she did in times past. to me she looks as lean or leaner than she did nearly 10lbs lighter, her back, arms, shoulders are holding more muscle, it's visible.

****The Q - (so sorry, i write this all down for myself likely more so than for you all) have you/do you follow or use this methodology. 25% carb breakfast, 50% in pwo window, then the remain 25% carb in the meal 60-90min pwo. this is the main change along w/ bumping the P up and lower her fats. all other meals, the three besides those three feeds will be P, veggie, fat.

just wondering your take on it, that system of carb cycle + timing of carbs. it's not far from what we did in the past. in the past we needed to bump up fats, 33g day wasn't enough, that's where she'll be now down from 60+g fat. we bumped the fats up in the past to meet caloric need and also when she stalled we noted that her fats were too low. the quantity of carbs in that pwo window seems huge 110g pwo + another 55g in the pwo meal for a total of 165g carbs in that window after her workouts. thoughts???

also, the source? thinking pwo will need to be a carb drink + white rice to make the difference (110g). w/ the meal - likely a brown rice or sweet potato + oats, some combo to hit 55g.

she's a vegetarian so the protein end is rough too. egg whites, chik (fake chicken cutlet patties) fungal, whey, wheat, egg blend. w/ remainers made up in whey drinks to hit her #'s.

that was question one. a big lump of shit huh.

Q2 2 - Carb drink? do you use Surge, if so, which one, the recovery drink correct, do they make a pre-workout as well. is that worth buying? thinking of picking up some gycomayze by On, it's just a carb drink, i like it because i don't bloat w/ it and it digests nice, no GI distress.

your thoughts?

again sorry to write you a book, if you don't respond or want to charge me...i'll understand. we've got a handle on things, sort of. i mentioned she's a dr and scientist so crunching #'s is easy for her, i'm just not sure they make sense.

20% decrease from 2262 bmr x 1.6 is 1987cal on high, 1811 on moderate, 1636 on low. not sure if the variance is high enough. again it's simple math for a girl age 32, 5'4" @138lbs @her fitness activity level....but numbers are one thing, i'm looking for opinions from folks who have done the dance before.

bonus Q - any tricks ..haha tricks to get her legs smaller, get more fat off of them? plyo, keeping it grooving doing plyo between heavier sets, higher rep ranges, drop sets, adding in HITT cardio. all forms of cardio considered, it seems the row machine, stairmaster and bike work better than the treadmill and eliptical. your opinions?

basically we are doing as little as we can first to see results, e.g. don't take out too much too quick or you burn out your options/resources. slashing cals now and buring up w/ 2x day cardio early is not what's needed.

removing peices from her diet one at a time, the main change now is the timing of cals, and bumping her carbs up, it seems counter intuitive but we'll see. buying eggo wholewheat low fat waffles, white rice, brown rice, potatoes w/ no fat cheese, steak fries, we felt like fatty mcfatty's at the grocery yesterday.

usually it's meat for me, egg whites and veggies for her. we'll see. i'm likely going to grow eating these carbs because they will bump up my daily intake cals, whereby she is adding these carbs in for the timing and #'s game but her overall cals will be decreased.

the breakdown P/F will always be around 210g/30g C- High day 219g M- 175 L-131 we'll bump down another 10-20% after 4 wks if she is stalling.

this was wrtten a bit jumbled, respond to any parts you wish, different insight(s) is always welcome. more helpful is if you've gotten into contest shape not just have ideas about it.

i'll thow up a few pic now. abs when she was dieted down more and current, an old lat spread vs newer back pics. her back is her strong point. her new lat spread blocks out the sun :slight_smile:


#2


old abs, when dieted, cropped out the underboob, look for it in SAMA otherwise :slightly_smiling:


#3


current abs @ around 140lbs...


#4

more dieted front double biceps. her arms have come up since this picture.


#5

older lat spread


#6


rear double from October 2011, gained a lot of size in arms, shoulders, and back this off-season i think.


#7


last one for now...no wheels yet, she won't let me post any until they are more where she wants them to be. i think they look good but she's picky. she can squat 225 to parallel at her current bodyweight, and pulled 315 w/ straps for a double.

*as mentioned pfp she's stronger than me.


#8

Im confused... Did you already ask Stu for help?

If you did you should be listening to him, and him alone, for the time being. If you decide not to take his guidance in the future you can look for it elsewhere, but getting multiple opinions outside of Stus on what to do right now would be counterproductive, in my opinion.


#9

Lonnie - i was going to make this an e-mail just for Stu, he and I have spoke before about about a few things, but i thought it might/could be a learning thread for others if i made it a public process. I'm not looking for others to guide "because" i'm not listening to Stu, Stu hasn't responded yet, I'll take whatever Stu says to heart, additionally any thing deemed as valid by others could/would be useful. Those who have done it sucessfully are always good to hear/listen to. there is always more than one way and one super food to use, but overall most folks arrive at the destination sucessfully by following similar plans/methodolgies. noting that some folks go keto others carb cycle in a chronologically reductive fashion. bumping macros here and there to get past hurdles.

Right now it is a dry run, using CT's carb/calorie cycle. my specific Q's are about the quanity of carbs at and around PWO. the #'s are correct conversions but i'm still curious about others #'s. Ultimately it is a sport of trial and error, improving each prep. my other Q is focused on carb source PWO and meal time PWO, it seems like for her hitting 165g of carbs (high days)in that 1.5hr span after her workout might be tough w/out the use of Surge or a product like waxy mazie.


#10

Ahhh, alright. I just didnt want to contribute to the bane of every coaches existence... The dreaded "Yeah, but I heard I should..."

From the sound of your plan you guys seem to know what you are doing by and large. CT's carb cycling plan works very well. I would start off doing it "by the book" and then go from there. You have a good plan laid out in terms of your cardio too I think (Start minimal, gradually increase)

As for the carb sources peri-workout, you could really use anything. Things like Surge, Finibars, Metabolic Drive Muscle Growth make it nice and easy because they are easy to measure and consistent from serving to serving. But people have been getting lean and muscular on Rice, Oatmeal, Yams, Veggies, etc... for years and years now. They work as well.

165g of carbs really isn't all that tough to hit... Couple of finibars and some oatmeal and you're done. 1 serving of Surge Recovery provides 50g in a single drink.

TAKE NOTES is a big thing. You want to make sure you know what works, what doesnt, and where to make adjustments.


#11

continuing...

apologies again for the ramble in my first post, it was going to originally be a PM/message as mentioned. those reading, if they look over my reply to Lonnie might get a better idea of my focal points/concerns.


adding - this new approach to us (but not new approach overall obviously) threw me off at first because i'm so use to her eating veggies and egg whites w/ oats here and there plus a fair amount of healthy fats. pumping up the carbs and shifting them to 75% around workout time is just a bit different for her. i wasn't use to the idea of her injesting such a high carb load in a quick window. the more it sits w/ me the more it feels right...we'll see.

finding alternate proteins that are bio-useful and not also carbs or fats is challenging - being that she is a vegetarian minus eggs and dairy. most fabricated proteins for vegetarians are not stand alone proteins. our friend who is also a veggie is a powerlifter and BB who did an npc show in VT last Spring, he won his class at 150 some lbs. off-season he gets up to 175-190lbs, he got too lean too quick for his first BB show, despite winning he could have held onto more size. anyways, we have his 16wk diet log and are using many of the same foods, so this will be a KEY reference point for us.

added point about vegetarianism and BB PL myths -as a PL he has a 390lb bench @ 181lb class, so you can be strong and do BB as a veggie if the genetics are there. my gf has built all the muscle she has gained on a no meat diet. she was new to lifting weights in 2007, didn't really take it too serious until 2008. now, that said, someone as pre-disposed to be thin as myself would have a hard time gaining size w/out meat (see my before in t-cell), but it can be done if you have the genetics.

Partly why i was initially concerned w/ her #'s - i see many folks on here and at the gym, say they want to diet down they are then suddenly eating like 1800-1500 cals. so when i did the calculations and we arrived @ roughly 2000 for high and 1600 for low i thought they might be high #'s, being that she is 5'4" 138lbs currently. the more it sits w/ me, i realize many folks lock up their metabolism by going bone low too soon, and many who try and diet aren't lean and calorically efficent to begin with. she's already pretty lean and burns through a lot of cals each day. as mentioned her problem area is getting her ass and legs smaller. insight and approaches barring spot reduction would/might be useful. we're pretty smart and are doing the right things but we can always use more, perhaps something we find and realize along the way that works best for her body.

Lonnie thanks for chiming in, this thread may drift down but i'll bump it up as the weeks progress w/ progress, food reports, anything notable. I'm pretty blessed, she's cool as heck, other than the bitch and moan that all long term couples go through, i've tried hitting her (jokes), she hits back hard though. i didn't post a face pic but she gets compared to Scarlett Johansson quite a bit. I'm serious, no shit. I'm lucky, i tricked her into liking me years ago, and lucky for me she keeps me around. just have to get her sleep w/ me more often, (yes, i've tried hitting her) apparently i'm suppose to be romantic more often.

i'm sure i'll get smacked in the head when she reads all this bullshit, criticizing her weak points, mentioning t-vixen titties, what have you. i've got issues, anyone who has read my shit knows this.

thanks.


#12

I think the best thing to do is start the diet with whatever numbers CT's article gave you (1600-200 I believe you said) and go from there. Try it for 2 weeks and see where it gets her, adjust from there.

A lot of this stuff is trial-and-error. You are being VERY smart by doing a dry run this far out, it gives you plenty of time to customize and find out what works for her.


#13

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#14

Wow, geez, you guys have certainly given me a lot to read over on a Monday morning -lol...

Lesse... leaner now, at a heavier bodyweight than last year.... always good, should allow for dieting on higher #s once you really get going. Lower body coming in a few steps behind upper body (this is common among a most competitors, especially women).

Okay, let's get to these questions...

Q1- carb timing... Because I train at night, except for my high intake days, I don't bother with carbs post training. My peri-workout nutrition is spot-on, and as such I haven't suffered at all from eliminating the
dogmatic "20 min post window for carbs". In fact, my contest weight has gone up steadily since I've been competing, so I don't sweat all the little things that online 'experts' whine about.

Something else you'll hear more experienced competitors admit to is that at some point, the source of your carbs matters much less than the quantity and the timing. As far as fat intake, I keep mine a bit higher than some people, simply from my love of almond butter and fish, but also due to my heavy reliance on Flameouts to keep my joints in check. I don't calculate the actual calories from them into my #s, but I know they're there in case I really stall out and have to recrunch my #s down to the last decimal point.

When it came to Cat's prep last Spring, even though she trained at night, we did preserve some Post session carbs. But to be honest, I did that more as a psychological thing for her. We found that Cat was pretty carb sensitive, and we didn't need too many to retain her LBM and keep her metabolism speeding along. Also, she had much less muscle to worry about retaining than someone like I would, which I find is usually the case with females. You can push their #s down much lower and they will usually not suffer muscle loss to the same degree as a male might experience.

Q2- I use Surge Workout Fuel. I actually throw a scoop in with my Anaconda/MAG-10 on days when I want more carbs in addition to the Finibars I always take. I've heard of people using the SWF pre, during, and post training. For me though, I've just noticed a bit more of a kick in the pants when I use it during, and like I mentioned previously, I don't obsess about Post session carbs.

Getting legs leaner? Obviously more time on a cut will give them time to lean out, but a few other options might include Layne's theory about doing interval work for a period (20 mins), and then going straight into steady state (another 20 mins) work. I don't know if the whole 'burning the freed up fatty acids' premise truly holds water, but the extra cardio never hurts. This feeds into the second idea I was going to bring up, more leg based cardio work.

I was on the phone with Tim, Christian, and Shugart last summer, and Christian was discussing maybe having me take a stab at an NPC show. In our back and forth about natural vs assisted athletes, he mentioned the possible reasoning behind unassisted athletes never having huge legs as being the large amount of cardio work necessary to step onstage truly shredded.

In the same vein, Jim Cordova has spoken in the past about trying to include non-leg focused cardio so that he can maintain much more leg mass onstage. If we follow along with this line of thinking, creating more of a physical demand on your girl's lower half (whether cardio, or even slight overtraining with the weights - something Mia Finegan used to do) might delivery the goods so to speak.

When it comes to her #s, don't even focus on what other people are doing. I see a lot of guys start their preps and instantly they're eating 2200-2400 cals a day and dropping all their carbs out. Then I have people who've never stepped onstage themselves telling me that I'm doing it all wrong. I just nod my head and say thanks. I don't need to explain the differences in people's metabolic functioning to you, but sometimes we need to be reminded to step back and look at our progress regardless of what other people are doing.

If the #s you guys are using now are keeping things moving, either on the scale, or in terms of body composition (which is much more important IMO), then keep going. If I read everything correctly (and there's a lot to read, thank you very much -lol) she's not actually in full blown prep mode yet? If that's the case, great, time to screw around. If she is, and you're worried about time, or plateauing, my first instinct would be how many high days. You can get away with more frequent high days when you're leaner (further into your cut), but I wouldn't usually have anyone doing 2x at the onset when the main goal is fat loss.

Hope I hit on everything there, just got to work a little while ago and had this wall of text between you and Lonnie to sort through :slightly_smiling:

S


#15

I'll be following along. I'm really interested to see how she does with leaning down her legs. Like a lot of women, I can get really lean in my upper body, and still have some fairly soft thighs and calves.

I just added more stairmill, and I'm doing higher reps at lower weights for my lower body lifts for now to see how they respond, while still trying to lift as heavy as I can for upper body. This is my first attempt to cut a bit of fat since I started lifting so we'll see.

Question for you all - When you have a female with some big calves, both muscle and a place she wants to store fat - Do you suggest more calf work to get more blood supply to burn off the fat, or does that make sense?

I never work mine, but I just added some calf work, hoping that I can lean them down. I'm not interested in getting them bigger. If it's just a matter of "first place to gain fat, last place to loose it" then they'll be the last to go.


#16

Your wifee is more developed than many dudes in this forum.

Awesome.


#17

thanks for all the info Stu. i'm sure i'll have more questions along the way. i hope i can make this thread into something good for all to learn from, particularly myself.

trained shoulders tonite for an hr...thought we were going home after, she told me she needed to do 40 mins of cardio...i did some calves and traps while i waited for her to finish.

20 HITT followed by 20 steady state.

SteelyD- she is quite built, the scarey thing is she picked up her first weight seriously in 2007-08. she was a soccer player, recruited to play D1 but went to med school and did her phd/md instead, figured it would be too much to play soccer and excel in academics.

seeing her eat low fat whole wheat eggo waffles tonite was quite a sight, so use to veggies and eggwhites. tonite it was oats, waffles, eggs, eggwhites. truth is, after a high carb day yesterday she did look tighter and fuller in the shoulders as she trained them, firehose vein in her anterior deltoids...hot! carbs do help w/ da pumps, for sure.

i'll keep posting here and there w/ progress, thoughts, pics, etc. we're going to change CT's carb cycle slightly, opting for just one high (re-feed) carb day per training cycle weekly, a few moderate days and a few lows. she does have fat to lose in the legs to make them match her upper half, her abs and serratus aren't fully in yet either.

she said she wishes she had 5'8" style legs and not 5'4" type legs. 36-24-36 only if she's 5'3" hehehe, the fuck if i know her actual measurements. the boobs are going away....sad am i. maybe fakies someday, it doesn't matter to me, i wouldn't say No though :slightly_smiling:


#18

I would caution against increasing the reps and lowering the weight for her leg work... Reps do NOT burn fat. If anything, she needs to keep lifting heavy for her legs, and use the diet and cardio to strip the fat away.

Unless she is looking to lose muscular size in her legs, in which case go for it. But if she is happy with her musculature, or wants to increase it, keep the reps LOW and HEAVY.


#19

Lonnie,

Thanks for the feedback. To clarify, that was my question about leaning down calves specifically, and about experimenting with higher reps to try to lean my legs out just a bit.

Thread jack unintended, Cyrus. Your wife has some seriously impressive development. This will be very fun to watch.


#20

Lonnie- we're not going to fix what isn't broke so to speak. firm belief that what you did to gain the muscle is more or less what you continue to do to keep the muscle while dieting. she is adding plyo/hitt type stuff between her traditional stuff just to burn more calories overall and keep her heart rate high to help promote burning so to speak.

the lighter weight or this or that to carve in details is bs overall, diet and lower bf will "bring out details."

we are posing a lot, hitting and holding the mandatories and working on transitions, trying to figure out what works best to highlight strong points. while some poses are hit essentially the same as the men she is doing such w/ a sense of female beauty. branch warren is great but her running out there to "Thunderstruck" hitting 15 most musculars isn't what we want.

save the most musculars for the bedroom, wink wink, poke, nudge.

chest tonite, her focus is on inclines and incline flies, working on the delt/pec tie in. she hits the 50's for 5 x 2 sets last time. i think as she gets leaner we will back down to the 40's / 45's and keep the reps a bit higher. it is hot seeing her rep w/ the 50's but still look attractive as a small woman.

the show is still unknown but will be in the INFB and/or SNBF, one wil be a tune up maybe and the other the real deal, we've seen a few that are 2 wks apart...we'll see.