T Nation

Cyp

Today I saw my MD and he took blood work as I explained I was on androgel and then went to 3wks of enanthate, 125mg 1xwk intramuscular. He took me off that and put me on 200mg cyp 2xwk subterraneus until my blood work comes back and he sees where my levels are.

Prior blood showed free t of 82 and total 520. My free t % is 1.9. That seemed to be upper range but free t in lower range. ??? He said my free was very low and he will get that up. He claimed cyp was less toxic than ent intramuscular and 2x wk non muscular would keep my levels smoother. Again I am 54 and in pretty good shape.

I had psoriasis and in the 80s and 90s put alot of cortisone creams on every day and from what I read, cortisone creams applied for that long a time don’t do your endo system any good. My skin has been clear for years and no longer use the creams. Any feedback would be appreciated.

The good news is my insurance covered everything. The bad news is I work on the commodities exchange and they are going computer and might not have insurance that long. LOL. I’ll deal with that then.

I’m not a MD nor do I play one on TV. However, I have always intentionally chosen Cyp or Eth. Many people claim they are virtually the same and that very well may be true but I have believed there was a slight difference. Your lab results may or may not testify to this fact as well.

Having said all this, most people should not hesitate in choosing Eth. After all there are exceptions to the rule

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I’m not a MD nor do I play one on TV. However, I have always intentionally chosen Cyp or Eth. Many people claim they are virtually the same and that very well may be true but I have believed there was a slight difference. Your lab results may or may not testify to this fact as well.

Having said all this, most people should not hesitate in choosing Eth. After all there are exceptions to the rule[/quote]

I used as a subject :cyp. The mod added Less Toxic? I am not making a case for either, just stating what the Md said to me. He has a large practice which doesn’t make him a know it all but my post was mainly about the dose and it being intramuscular or not and so on. Thanks.

So you will be injecting 100mg twice a week?

That is a lot of gear. Although you may need higher doses to get to high normal range, I am concerned that that will also create higher elevations of E. When the T hits, you will get very horny for a month or so. Most often that fades out. You will continue to get nocturnal erections. A sign that E is too high is when morning erections are lost and libido and ED are issues. In some cases, TRT without ancillaries can lead to a lower libido in the long run than you started with. And that will be at different E levels for different guys, different E:FT as well. So how you feel is what you need to tell the doc, he needs to treat you, not your lab reports. Having E in mid-high normal range can still kill your libido. You will be fully repressed. Have you talked to the doc about HCG*. That will also increase T a bit, keep nuts from shrinking and scrotum from pulling up tight to your body. Some feel testicular pain when their nuts shrink.

  • 250iu EOD SQ is the dose that is based on research. Also elevates mood for many. Many docs are not aware of this:

http://dspace.hsl.washington.edu/dspace/bitstream/2012/52/1/JCEM_2005_Low_Dose_Human.pdf

Insurance: Can you get a Sam’s Club business membership or sub on someone else’s? 10ml test cyp (Watson’s) is around $42(US) ($99 at Walgreen’s). 100 #23 1.5" 3ml syringes $18 per 100, #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringes $12 per 100. 10,000 iu HCG $16.25 The gear is cheap, it is the blood work and doctor’s visits that are expensive. (No insurance here) If you are (later) on a high deductible health insurance plan, you can get a HSA, (Health Savings Account), you put tax free money into it and get a deduction on your taxes.

You pay medical costs, including aspirin and band-aids etc, from the account. The account earns tax free interest, sort of like an IRA. (If you own an S-corp, you pay into the HSA with taxed dollars and then get the tax credit.) So with one of those, you can get (legal) gear, doctor fees and blood work paid out of income tax free dollars.

[quote]KSman wrote:
So you will be injecting 100mg twice a week?

That is a lot of gear. Although you may need higher doses to get to high normal range, I am concerned that that will also create higher elevations of E. When the T hits, you will get very horny for a month or so. Most often that fades out. You will continue to get nocturnal erections. A sign that E is too high is when morning erections are lost and libido and ED are issues. In some cases, TRT without ancillaries can lead to a lower libido in the long run than you started with. And that will be at different E levels for different guys, different E:FT as well. So how you feel is what you need to tell the doc, he needs to treat you, not your lab reports. Having E in mid-high normal range can still kill your libido. You will be fully repressed. Have you talked to the doc about HCG*. That will also increase T a bit, keep nuts from shrinking and scrotum from pulling up tight to your body. Some feel testicular pain when their nuts shrink.

  • 250iu EOD SQ is the dose that is based on research. Also elevates mood for many. Many docs are not aware of this:

http://dspace.hsl.washington.edu/dspace/bitstream/2012/52/1/JCEM_2005_Low_Dose_Human.pdf

Insurance: Can you get a Sam’s Club business membership or sub on someone else’s? 10ml test cyp (Watson’s) is around $42(US) ($99 at Walgreen’s). 100 #23 1.5" 3ml syringes $18 per 100, #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringes $12 per 100. 10,000 iu HCG $16.25 The gear is cheap, it is the blood work and doctor’s visits that are expensive. (No insurance here) If you are (later) on a high deductible health insurance plan, you can get a HSA, (Health Savings Account), you put tax free money into it and get a deduction on your taxes.

You pay medical costs, including aspirin and band-aids etc, from the account. The account earns tax free interest, sort of like an IRA. (If you own an S-corp, you pay into the HSA with taxed dollars and then get the tax credit.) So with one of those, you can get (legal) gear, doctor fees and blood work paid out of income tax free dollars. [/quote]

He is giving me 200mg cyp every 4days to jump start my free t. I gave blood yesterday before my first injection and will have results in a wk. I know it doesn’t mean anything but he has a large practice and seems to know what he is talking about. My free t 70 to 90 in every blood test I’ve had in two yrs. Even with total t being 450, free t is 83.

Free t% over 2yrs has bee 1.4 to 1.9. I have been to 2 other endos who never addressed my free t which kind of pisses me off. They always blew me off about injections because they knew I worked out and just assumed I was looking for better results. I just want to feel good and the androgel made me feel like sh-t.

This MD doesn’t care what my motivations are and is just looking to get me to where my levels should be. He has intentions of changing doses when he sees the tests he took. $15 copay at MD and $15 copay for all meds, t and syringes. I mentioned E levels and he said you have to have E. Would the fact that I’m not going intramuscular make any difference with the E levels.

He said going into the skin will release the levels at a smoother rate and not give me peaks and valleys. ??? Also, are you familiar with Veterans Benefits? I have that to fall back on when computer trading kicks in 100% which could be 6mo to 2yrs.

Thanks for the info. I too was surprised at the 400mg over 8 days. Hey, live and learn. Have a nice holiday.

What blood panels show E? Thanks. One thing, he said I had the prostate of a 20 yr old. No doubt that is the only thing. LOL.

[quote]olderguy wrote:
Would the fact that I’m not going intramuscular make any difference with the E levels. [/quote]

Injections result in lower fractions of T converting to E and DHT compared to transdermals. So less risk then transdermals for E. But, as your dose of T is high more E will be produced. That higher E will lead to higher SHBG. Spikes from larger or large infrequent injections also can promote higher E levels than more steady doses from more frequent injections.

I don’t have any knowledge of VA benefits.

E: yes you need to have E. Too much or too little is not good. E, even withing normal range, can kill many of the benefits of TRT.

hey fellas, i work for a physician who does alot of HRT as part of his practice. we routinely give men 200-400mg of either cyp or enanthate per week. my boss prefers enanthate and i prefer cyp. its all subjective and they have similar half lives.

the free testosterone lab is the one that matters most because thats the portion thats not rendered inactive because of being bound to proteins. you may have no problem at all with increased estrogen due to aromatization. its not a very big dose. certainly nothing that a bit of inexpensive nolvadex wouldnt take care of or if you have prescription insurance shoot for the moon and get the arimidex.