T Nation

Cyp from 2 to 3 Times a Week. Expected Changes?


#1

Currently on cyp 200mg sq split 2 injections a week. I’ve crashed E2 multiple times this year and havnt taken anastrazole in 7 weeks. My test levels are consistently 1200 total/35 free.

Last week I was in my sweet spot for about 5 days E wise then lost it. Immediately had a E2 drawn and it’s 24.7 which is low for me. This is odd because a month ago I was 27.7. I feel best physically and sexually 35-45.

Again I have stayed on the same trt regimine 200mg per week 2 injections with HCG 500iu per week yet my E2 dropped without any Anastrazole. What gives?

I was recommended by a friend that’s been on trt for 20 plus years to split my dose in 3 as this will have more consistently highs T levels with more conversion to keep my E up. Does this sound reasonable?

Any other changes I should expect changing to 200mg divided into 3 injections per week from 2 injections per week?

I’m more than willing to decrease my dose if needed. I just need my E to run higher than it has been for the last year.


#2

Injection frequency entirely depends on your SHBG level. Whenever you shoot for 1200 some guys never find any balance because it’s too much for guys who have lower SHBG.

If you don’t have enough SHBG to hold on to that much testosterone it’s going to be a never-ending rollercoaster ride for you. I hear stories all the time about guys spending years in the 1200 never finding any balance and then they come down to a more reasonable level and wonder why they hadn’t done it sooner.

The food you eat affects all of your levels, drinking more alcohol will raise estrogen, stopping alcohol intake will lower it.


#3

SHBG = 27.3

So my E is running to low even without anastrazole. Your saying dropping my T dose could help me find balance?

My plan was if E started rising on 200 split doses a week a week minus the anastrazole I was going to lower my dose to 180 per week and give it a try.

With this E 2 back down at 24 which is terrible for sexual function for me even with the anastrazole I was questioning lowering my T dose until E is within my preferred range.


#4

Also can some link an article relating SBHG to injection frequency or give a quick explanation?


#5

After reading many hours on here, am led to believe that more frequest injections should not create the E2 spikes. So I would think it would keep your e2 stable but not increase it.


#6

While I used to think that I’ve also read here many times that those injecting cyp 3 times a week usually end up lowering their doses because having consistently higher T levels from the more frequent injections can lead to higher E.

I am willing to try anything to get off this roller coaster ride with Low E2 being the cause 98% of the time in my case.


#7

Amen brother. Low E sucks!


#8

That’s the problem there is no studies for doctors to read on the subject which is why doctors are clueless from the start, they often learn through trial and error meaning we are guinea pigs. You better start thinking about a bigger reduction than you’re considering or this rollercoaster ride will last longer than you want it to, reduce dosage more or suffer longer.

A 20mg reduction after starting a protocol injecting more frequently will yield similar results on prior protocol or worse since you spend fewer days allowing your levels to drop between injections.


#9

So are you talking a 50mg reduction?

3 injections of 50mg.

Isn’t the point of the more frequent injections to keep levels higher more consistently?

I’m actually wanting my E to rise 15 points or so. However, I get from your experience that splitting the 200mg into 3 shots per week will lead to drastically higher levels of T and possibly greater imbalances in E as it may go even higher leading to more ratio imbalances.

Btw I appreciate your insight into this issue. My doc is good but is having trouble dialing me in since I’m so damn sensitive to anastrazole.


#10

I was fine injecting 50mg twice weekly, but when I start injecting 25mg EOD my T and E2 shot to the top of the range rather quickly, E2 became a problem within the first week. It took a 30mg reduction to calm E2 symptoms, most do fine 50mg twice weekly. I think you should aim for the 800 ranges when considering SHBG levels, usually high SHBG guys need more T to free up their FT.

Three times a week is uneven, if you inject Mon, Wed and Fri your going two days before another injection skipping Sat and Sun, you want consistency right? Twice weekly would be fine for you when considering your SHBG levels if your dose isn’t absurdly high. Whenever you have too much T you will always struggle with balance.


#11

Ok however cutting my T to 100mg /week from 200mg /week can come with its own side effects from such a drastic cut cant it?

I’ve been on 200/wk for 2 years.


#12

So what changes can one expect from cutting my dose from 200 to say 150 or 100 a week?


#13

You can stay on this rollercoaster or you can inject 50-70mg twice weekly and see how things go. Not many guys can handle 200mg weekly.


#14

Appreciate your insight. Think I’ll cut it to 70 twice a week and see what happens. It’s the easiest change to my protocol anyways.


#15

Don’t forget to adjust AI dosage down.


#16

E2=22pg/ml is a good number for most guys. There are a few exceptions.

Lower T dose is less FT and then less FT–>E2
You will have less E2 with a lower dose.

When TRT is not working right one must consider that low thyroid function could be a cause as this is so common with guys here.


Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
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Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.

KSman is simply a regular member on this site. Nothing more other than highly active.

I can be a bit abrupt in my replies and recommendations. I have a lot of ground to cover as this forum has become much more active in the last two years. I can’t follow threads that go deep over time. You need to respond to all of my points and requests as soon as possible before you fall off of my radar. The worse problems are guys who ignore issues re thyroid, body temperatures, history of iodized salt. Please do not piss people off saying that lab results are normal, we need lab number and ranges.

The value that you get out of this process and forum depends on your effort and performance. The bulk of your learning is reading/studying the suggested stickies.


#17

I’ve been off of AI for 6 weeks even on 200mg per week. That’s my issue. I over respond to AI and don’t aromatise enough. I want my E higher.


#18

Or perhaps bringing the T down will help me find a more desirable ratio of T:E.


#19

out of curiosity, how about your dosage of anastrazole?


#20

I was on 0.5 twice weekly on injection days. I ran my E to <2pg/mL 10/17, off AI 6 weeks E came up to 40, took 0.25 crashed to 8. No AI 4 weeks, came up and felt great. Took 0.125 crashes to single digits again. Now off AI 6 weeks and it’s hovering mid 20’s . I feel fine in the gym but erections are a hit and miss even on cialis.