T Nation

Cycling Plan to Avoid Side Effects


#1

My info
Im 32 and been training for 4 years. I started lifting at 17 and was at 110lbs. stopped because of career choices. Started again in 2012 Im 5’0 at 135lbs 12% BF. I was gaining a little bit of fat at bulking this winter and cut down to 12% from 19%.

From the past my excuses for not gaining was that I was hardgainer. Learned that it was BS and started paying attention to diet and mind muscle focus when lifting. Huge help and wish I did this when I was young and dumb.

I am coming to a conflicting cycle plan that was configured for my stats vs a cycle plan that I think I should go on.

enough chatter plan 1 is the plan I was told to take. Plan 2 is the plan I have researched to take. I will state my questions and scepticism at the end of plan 1. And to clarify this is a first cycle. I have done some research, but I am looking to fill holes that I may not know and may have been mis-informed (this is what I hate about the internet).

12 week cycle:

Week 1-6: 600mg of deca, 100mg of suspension EOD. 2cc of enanthate every three days.
Week 7: Pull out the suspension and add 50mg of Winstrol EOD till week 12, 1cc of cypionate every three days.

Okay so this cycle plan confuses the hell outta me lol. I so see my self shutting down natural test production due to deca being there. but the test stacked with this is for one suspension and test E and Test C near the end. which I thought suspension needs to be taken daily sometimes even hourly. so every other day I would be getting a suspension spike. Test E will supply me with the Test to keep deca on track but at those dosages Im not certain Test E dosage is high enough or deca being low enough (300 instead)?.

My next issue is pulling out suspension. granted it leaves the body quickly but now Im reducing Test levels while deca is still there till week 12 and I guess Test E and Cyp make up for that but I was thinking of cutting out deca at week 10 or extending Test E and Cyp till week 14 due to deca half life or is there something that stacking test E and C does something I dont know about?

PCT for Plan1

Day 1 - Clomid 200mg + Nolvadex 40mg
Following 10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
Following 10 days - Clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg

HCG:
500 IU’s per day for 2 weeks

Plan2
W1-10 Test E 250mg every 3 days
W1-12 Adex 0.25mg every other day.
W 1-8 deca 300mg per week

AI
W1-12 nolva 20mg/ if gyno hits
W1-10 caber 0.5 mg/ 2x a week if prolactin gives problems

PCT
W 13 Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Clomid 25mg/d

I understand that deca will shutdown my hpta but my main worry is androgenic sides more so then anabolic.

Conclusion
to the Bruce Banners out there Im looking for logical reasoning between the two plans and which would ultimately conclude with positive results better then the other. An educated (Banners) / experienced (Hulks) response would be most appreciated. I have done a little research but Im a thirsty person for knowledge and prep before executing. I love lifting and I love eating well. but Im looking for an edge. and thats why I have chosen to deffect to the dark side.

Thank you in advance for the time you volunteered in your day to read my post.


#2

WTF is “Plan 1” LOL.

Have you used gear before?

Literally so confused as to what the fuck that is all about…

Test suspension and e? Wtf

It just looks like you have written a load of shit to make your “Plan 2” look well planned…

“Plan 2” is nearly there…

All gear “shuts you down”. Your body does not need to produce natural test when using gear, so the fact you have deca in there is irrelevant to needed HCG.

If this is your first cycle, drop the deca, if this is not your first cycle then I still think drop the decca.

HCG 250iu 2-3 times a week.

Adex 0.5mg eod.

If you haven’t figured out how to search for PCT protocols in this forum then you need more help than first presumed…

Start nolvadex 2 weeks after last test e shot… 20mg ed for 6-8 weeks or the old school way of 40/40/20/20 has worked for me too…


#3

whoever told you to take cycle 1 as a first cycle is an asshole.

cycle 2 is good, but drop the deca (wait until you’ve run more cycles).

for PCT, i’d suggest nolva (20 mg/day) or clomid (25 mg/day) for 6-8 weeks.

below is a link that discusses some PCT stuff:


#4

You lost me at Deca. First cycle, bad idea.


#5

Thanks

yea I thought the first cycle was sketchy which is why I resorted to come on here and ask. I did LOL at your response of him being an asshole.

cycle revised.
W1-10 Test E 250mg every 3 days
W1-12 Adex 0.25mg every other day.

PCT
W13 -19 nolva (20 mg/day)

interesting read on Nolva and LH in comparison to Clomid. I feel a lot better about this. started reading the sticky on PCT protocol here to see if this would suffice.

Thank you for the input and resource.


#6

Still need to add in HCG and up adex to 0.5 eod…

Apart from that, very simple and effective cycle.


#7

got it. I will up the adex to .5 eod.

I have read about hcg and getting mixed methods. Some say to run hcg during cycle to pct. Some say run hcg after cycle for 2 weeks and the start pct. Or run hcg during pct.

read up on how hcg helps with shortening the recovery time and Thanks for opening my eyes up on this Andy. But where should I include hcg in a testE only cycle?


#8

Do HCG on cycle.

The point being to avoid allowing your balls to shut down on cycle by mimicking LH, rather than trying to get them back up and running during PCT - Preventing something rather than trying to fix it after.


#9

I know this has already been addressed, but holy shit, that ‘plan 1’ is NUTS. Deca and suspension… and only EOD on the suspension at that!!! Every time I think I’ve seen it all, I get proven wrong. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen a worse plan. That’s insane. That HAS to be from someone who is either just fucking with you, or hates you.

And as everyone else has said, don’t use the Deca.


#10

lol. was given to me from a trainer/pro BB. Dont know if they tried to ruin my life and well being or is just stupid. Im going to much more careful with this guy. Im not taking deca since I would just like to see how I react to testE and log my expereince with cycle and PCT and understand what to expect before entertaining another component in my next cycle.


#11

That makes sense to me. so at 250 iu two or three times a week sounds like a similar patern to my TestE E3D. Would pinning HCG the day after TestE be okay?

W 1-10 TestE 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex .5 mg EOD
W 1-12 HCG 250IU E3D

PCT
W 13 Clomid 100mg/d
W 14-16 Clomid 25mg/d
W 13-20 Nolva 20 mg/d


#12

Could drop chlomid.

New research is showing that a smaller serm dose for a longer period, preferably nolvadex, is better than using chlomid and nolvadex and higher doses for a shorter period.