T Nation

Cycling HcG on TRT


#1

I went to a "Vitality Clinic" for my TRT, not an Endo. I talked to a PA, not a Physician. I felt like I knew so much more than he did. Either way, the clinic is managed by a physician, and I assume the regimen was created by one.

I'm questioning how they use HcG though-

I'm on 140mg/wk test c. I asked about HcG use really more out of vanity than anything, I don't want small balls.

I was told that if you are on a constant dose of HcG the body will eventually realize that this stimulation is coming from outside the body and could stop responding. So their solution is to cycle it every 8 wks. They said this will let my Leydig cells slowly go to sleep, and then they wake them back up with an 8 wk blast of HcG. That way the cells won't end up going dormant forever.

Is this sound thinking? Is it in line with how you other TRTers use HcG?

Thanks!


KSman is Here
#2

No, it isn’t sound thinking. Why take the chance of them “going to sleep” and not waking up? There are no reports that I’m aware of where people have stopped responding to HCG. The only time that happens is if they are “blasted” with too high of a dose, and become desensitized. No need to run over 250iu in a single dose, three times per week. I imagine their blast is a several-thousand iu hit followed by a traditional maintenance dose.


#3

I’ll have to double-check at my appointment tomorrow, but I believe their idea of a blast is 500iu/week split into 2 doses of 250iu, for 8 weeks, 8 weeks off.


#4

I don’t see the point or reasoning behind the on/off period. You’re not doing a cycle here, this is TRT. You are already low - your boys aren’t doing their job to begin with. Adding in the HCG helps keep them full and producing what they already are. By that logic, you should come off your T every few weeks so your boys can produce their own T. It just goes against what the experts in the field recommend. Jump over to Crisler’s site and poke around. He’s one of the “gurus” for TRT, and his patients don’t come off. Not to mention, the well being that most guys experience with the addition of HCG would be lost for that 8 week off period.


#5

After my gyno experience with hCG it sounds like a great idea.


#6

Thanks a lot for the responses.


#7

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:
After my gyno experience with hCG it sounds like a great idea.[/quote]

I just started HCG yesterday and I must tell you that your experience had me as nervous as a cat on a hot tin roof.

My PA tried to talk me into doing cycles as well. He wanted to do 1ml of 1,000u IM every other day until the boys were back in the game, then stop and restart when needed. I think he’s stuck in restart only mode and should hop on here and learn something.

I opted for the injection protocol in the stickies instead.


#8

[This is a rather weak post if you are seeking answers to more than this narrow issue.]

The “unit/lobe” of hCG that activates LH receptors is identical to the “unit/lobe” of LH that does the same.

There is a concern about desensitization of LH receptors with high doses of LH. There was a study done in 2005 that determined that 250iu hCG EOD was a replacement dose for youthful levels of LH. So there does not seem to be a issue that has been defined, but one can still be speculative.

LH has a very short half life [20 minutes] and is release in pulses. If you could get LH to inject, it would be very impractical. hGH has a long half life, making EOD injections a good option.

There are other reasons to maintain the testes, they also are a major source of pregnenolone and some other steroid hormones other than T and E2.


#9

Thanks, all.

KSman- I actually did make a more detailed post, with all the required Introduction info, but it was ignored. Mainly, I think, because I was asking a silly question- “Is TRT right for me?”.

The purpose of this particular post is very narrow, yes- basically I wanted to know if I should accept the 8wks-on-8wks-off hCG protocol that I’ve been put on. Or if I should find a new doc that understands the idea of 250iu 2x/wk ongoing that seems (from my reading here, and other places) to be more optimal.

I just dont want my testicles to be shrinking and swelling every 8 weeks, if that would even happen. And, seeing as I’m young (27) I’d like to approach TRT in the safest way possible. I haven’t yet decided if I’m 100% going to do this for life. I figure I’d give it 6-12 months and see if I really see the benefits…that may sound silly to most, but it’s what I’ve decided.

Thanks so much for your response, sir.

As a side note: I know that with the long cyp ester it takes a few weeks to build up in your system, but the 3rd day after my very first injection I started waking up in the middle of the night with and erection so hard, it was difficult to fall back asleep. Not complaining. Maybe placebo?


#10

[quote]KSman wrote:
[…hGH has a long half life, making EOD injections a good option…
[/quote]

I’m pretty sure HCG was intended, not HGH.


#11

Has anyone has issue running hcg for an extensive period of time?

Also, does anyone agree that hcg use post trt cycle is a poor decision?


#12

I have run 250 x 2x per week for a year. I actually just asked my doctor about cycling off of HCG because I have concerns with long term loss of fertility. My blood work shows I need to increase my HCG to 500 x 2x a week, so I will adjust.

My issue with HCG has nothing to down with shrinkage etc… I simly want to make sure that I maintain the long term options for fertility… Not sure I really ahve a final answer yet . If you check out this Youtube video from a Dylan Gemelli that is VERY VERY up to date on taking roids etc… He says to cycle HCG 100%!! I must say, I may follow his lead on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQnRt3rTqac&lc=z12pfvgoasjlj1q23232iloghv31jfygh04.1498238247016900

I like this guy. Straight shooter


#13

Mostly bull shit and you need to understand that you are on TRT because your HPTA is already broken.

T+hCG preserves fertility.

There are no problems with the low dose hCG suggested here as it is similar to the LH receptor stimulation of LH in normal males.

I am not going to invest more time on this.

I have been injecting hCG 250iu subq EOD for almost 11 years.