Cycling Creatine?

Diet and Nutrition
21

[quote]old_hitter wrote: like Beef

Whoooaa lol ignorant remark, but later you correct your opinion, and now you believe the body produces creatine, u already learnt something with my post.
[/quote]

Im always open to learn form any source but dont flatter yourself you taught me Nada.

You would have to eat insane amounts of beef to reach a saturation point that is easily acheived with a simple teaspoon a day of monohydrate and may never reach that point with just intake.

OK then why the hell would you ever stop taking it. If stopping you lose much of the benefit of higher ATP stores hydration that aids flushing of nutrients in and out of the tissues as well and the plethora of health benefits they are now finding to creatine supplementation such as cognitive benefit etc.

You killed your own opinion/arguement here.

[quote]
Yep Dr.House, you got it! I was eating a lot, but not that much… If you were more knowledgeable you would know that creatine intake sensitivity varies among individuals.[/quote]

By god if you gained 20 lbs then you must carry one hell of a large amount of LBM to warrant 20+ lbs of water storage from creatine supplementation, Congrats on that.

Please its called being nice, polite, Im asking them not telling or commanding it etiquette due to the fact I was asking ppl to beleive me and not the drivvel you posted LOL Im trying to say that one person that may just buy the info you are passing. Thats why I ask please.

Have a good one
Phill

22

[quote]old_hitter wrote:
I think u shouldnt take creatine for a long time without breaks because it’s possible that you can mess with the ability of your body naturally producing creatine.

I would stay away from creatine first because the gains are mostly water, the strength gains are temporary, you gain a lot of weight that can hurt your perfomance in sports, get stretchmarks with the quick volume gains, hurt your liver,…

Don’t be to eager to get the volume, enjoy your strength gains, your protein gains in your muscles instead of glycogen or water, long lasting mass gains with the maxstrength gains is what I personally strive for but respect other views, I’m only talking from my experience.

I took 2kilos of creatine in my life, first time I took it I gain like a mad, people even told me i was taking steroids… for horses! I gain 10 kilos in 2 weeks or so, a lot of strength gains associated with the atp, I think my maximalstrength didnt improve, of course even with one rep, if u can do half rep or so with a heavyweightmaybe with creatine you can finish the rep.

Endurance is a function of strenght and vice-versa…In theory I believe maximalstrenght can be measured only with an infinite small duration of force output.

But back to the point, I think is not worth the excessive volume gained,( my body looked deformed, my neck was as larger or more larger than my head in frontview) the possible sideefects that could exist even though they are not known, and the money u spent on them.
Peace
[/quote]

WOW…what a winner. Hope you don’t hurt yourself with your creatine induced huge neck muscles.

23

old hitter … you sound like my highschool health teacher ? maybe it is my teacher lol hahaa.

24

Ah, and I forgot something, after I took creatine my glaucoma got visible: it originated or got worse… creatine causes fluid retention, the muscles next to the optic nerve got bigger and then pushed the iris making little room for fluid getting out: another hypothesis like it or not!

My neck got huge, my body became deformed, my muscle imbalance got even more visible, huge arms, huge neck, huge back, huge legs… small pecs! Now I got loose skin, I reached 100 kilos back then, now I’m trying to fill it up without water retention. I know that I’m an extreme case, never heard or read about other individual having these growth.

I had strenght gains and other positive efects but I’m trying to give the negative aspects and reflecting about my experience and possibilities because I care about people, and think the volume gains are not worth the possible consequences. There isnt’ any study that research about the long term efects, no study is about the people 20 years after the intake. It isnt natural to fill the body with external creatine, its possible that long term usage can afect the body own mechanism of producing creatine.

We now know that excess water is bad, why shouldnt be creatine?
Because it is expelled from the body the excess, but what about the organs that have to clean that up, the pressure on the kidneys for example? You have to drink a lot of water, go to the bathroom many times…

About the creatine i took, it was creapure from scitech, the bag was sealed, I was amazed about the results and in that time i made all the reasoning that u are making now, like it could have been put something in the package and I comented that with a friend but I dont think so because I took it again from other brands, but the same creapure and got similar results.

So if u will take creatine suplementation I think u should cycle!
One month off is what i was recommended to do back then.
Peace

25

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
WOW…what a winner. Hope you don’t hurt yourself with your creatine induced huge neck muscles.
[/quote]

Have u been listening?! Or you are just a jackass? it was mainly water!!
It hurt my performance, my cardio couldnt manage the excess weight, and I reached 100 kilos, before all the process ( not the 2-3 weeks) I weighted 81 kilos, my fighting category climbed 2 places.

26

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
old_hitter wrote:
Where did my logic failed?
About spelling and grammar, I speak some languages, english is not my native tong and I even dont care if I make mistakes in that department so I write quickly and dont care if guys like you disaprove. If there is something you dont understand say so and I can explain, but dont ask me to have perfect grammar and spelling for the sake of it.

english isn’t my native tongue either. your logic failed when you decided to post that utter garbage you call a hypothesis, complete with qualifying words such as “it’s possible” and statements like “I think u shouldn’t” and “I would stay away from”.

that crap has no place in a hypothesis, we are not alchemists in the 16th century. your personal feeling on the issue are irrelevant if they are not backed up by some research, even bad research. even a bad case study, hell there are enough out there.

some of the wild claims you made were even beyond the scare tactics used by those who equated creatine to steroids.

“in theory i believe” that your creatine had dbol in it according to your account. of course in practice i realize that nothing you wrote can be counted upon because your powers of observation allow you only to see what you want to see (cognitive dissonance anyone?). and, your wrong.

that last speeling/grammer mistake was for dave, read his damn article before you start anymore shit.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=768093 [/quote]

I could come here and praise the benefits and the only positive side of creatine but you guys are here to do that, the supplements companys, everybody is interested in that. Nobody questions, hmmm only when some athlete dies and he was taking creatine come people acusing creatine, I’m not doing that, I’m not backing anything with research because I’m talking about my own experience and about logical hypothesis and pertinent. If you were a scientist maybe you could see the benefit of talking about possibilites even if all the research was refuting that.

But what is the ultimate truth is that no study can refute the possibilites I mentioned, no long term effects were tested, not all the health examination was made. Some years ago everybody said we should drink the most water we can drink, that is wrong and know the studies appear about that and new studies about creatine could appear also, maybe not many people is interested in making high level research because is not a health priority to study a suplement that can make people bigger. Vitamins that were water soluble also studies said that we could take how much vitamins we want because the excess can be expelled easily, that is not true also, I think… I’m not sure about anything like you scienceguys!

What you people are talking now is recitation of articles and studies, not independent thinking. I know all those studies but I dont buy everything I read like some uttergarbagers, maybe you could buy what I wrote if I showed some phd and some fonny ass study that you couldnt even evaluate the correctness of the study.

I think that we shouldnt get more away of the topic: to answer the question: cycle or not, I think you should cycle, and reflect if it is really worth taking creatine, if u find it worth go for it, I can understand that, but I had to tell you to beware.

27

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
old_hitter wrote:
Where did my logic failed?
About spelling and grammar, I speak some languages, english is not my native tong and I even dont care if I make mistakes in that department so I write quickly and dont care if guys like you disaprove. If there is something you dont understand say so and I can explain, but dont ask me to have perfect grammar and spelling for the sake of it.

english isn’t my native tongue either. your logic failed when you decided to post that utter garbage you call a hypothesis, complete with qualifying words such as “it’s possible” and statements like “I think u shouldn’t” and “I would stay away from”.

that crap has no place in a hypothesis, we are not alchemists in the 16th century. your personal feeling on the issue are irrelevant if they are not backed up by some research, even bad research. even a bad case study, hell there are enough out there.

some of the wild claims you made were even beyond the scare tactics used by those who equated creatine to steroids.

“in theory i believe” that your creatine had dbol in it according to your account. of course in practice i realize that nothing you wrote can be counted upon because your powers of observation allow you only to see what you want to see (cognitive dissonance anyone?). and, your wrong.

that last speeling/grammer mistake was for dave, read his damn article before you start anymore shit.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=768093 [/quote]

Talking about spelling and grammar mistakes… geez you are not that smart , are you? English is one of Canada languages, right?
Dbol, u even know the kind of steroid, you are well versed on steroids and very smart. I have to apologize. That hypothesis is much more plausible than mine!

28

[quote]old_hitter wrote:
Talking about spelling and grammar mistakes… geez you are not that smart , are you? English is one of Canada languages, right?
Dbol, u even know the kind of steroid, you are well versed on steroids and very smart. I have to apologize. That hypothesis is much more plausible than mine![/quote]

alright, we’ll let you in on the joke since it is at your expense. your wrong is one of dave barr’s favorite things to nit pick about. the correct form is you’re wrong. however in this case your wrong applies too, as in your bad, or my bad, or my wrong. part two: i purposely misspelled spelling and grammar (after spelling correctly back on the last page of this thread in my post where i chided you for failing to make a logical arguement) to poke fun at your spelling and grammar. now that was pretty infantile of me, but i have to amuse myself somehow, what’s your excuse, are you hungarian?

i talked to the government today, apparently english is one of canada’s official languages. and all this time i have been demanding service en francais even though i barely know any.

in light of reports that some unscrupulous supplement companies in the US had ‘juiced’ their creatine in the early days to get good reviews, it actually fits in quite well with your (note how i used the correct your there) experience as you have shared with us. and you thought i was shooting from the hip. yet still more plausible.

my real theory is you stuffed your face while ‘on’ creatine, like most do, and most your ‘gains’ was bloat. well maybe fat is more correct, certainly explains the stretch marks. i don’t even have to think independently to come up with that.

now that i’m done playing, have you though of the fact that many of the researchers who published supportive studies where actually out to disprove the use of creatine? or that there are long term studies out there?

lets go with no since independent thinking requires that we ignore such evidence and make whatever idiotic thought you cobble together in your head the new theory.

it too bad you weren’t on creatine when you injured your head, because it would have prevented some of the brain damage.

29

[quote]old_hitter wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
WOW…what a winner. Hope you don’t hurt yourself with your creatine induced huge neck muscles.

Have u been listening?! Or you are just a jackass? it was mainly water!!
It hurt my performance, my cardio couldnt manage the excess weight, and I reached 100 kilos, before all the process ( not the 2-3 weeks) I weighted 81 kilos, my fighting category climbed 2 places.[/quote]

Yes, I admit I am a jackass and I have no problem pointing at stupid fucks like you and laughing.

Go ahead and make more of an ass of yourself. Your new here, and already reaching epic proportions of stupidity.

Good luck with the creatine swollen neck muscles bro.

30

[quote]old_hitter wrote:

Have u been listening?! Or you are just a jackass? it was mainly water!!
It hurt my performance, my cardio couldnt manage the excess weight, and I reached 100 kilos, before all the process ( not the 2-3 weeks) I weighted 81 kilos, my fighting category climbed 2 places.[/quote]

Ha! hurt your cardio. Someone has a little sand in their pussy. Work harder then!

Also you can’t get the amount of creatine from meats like you can from supplementation. Heat also kills creatine, cook the meat, destroy the creatine.

It’s too bad the creatine caused your glaucoma to come back. Not everyone is like you, different people, different bodies.

now stop hi-jacking this dudes thread, and let others inform him.

To the topic started.

You can cycle it if you want. Depends on how you handle it. Personally I only take it after workouts. I don’t load it or anything. I take it with my post-workout shake. Research has shown loaders and non-loaders reach same creatine levels in about 2 weeks. Als some articles on here mention how it supersaturates the muscles with creatine, up to 110%. Dropping about 3% a day.

Read up, and decide for yourself.

31

[quote]old_hitter wrote:
I think u shouldnt take creatine for a long time without breaks because it’s possible that you can mess with the ability of your body naturally producing creatine.

I would stay away from creatine first because the gains are mostly water, the strength gains are temporary, you gain a lot of weight that can hurt your perfomance in sports, get stretchmarks with the quick volume gains, hurt your liver,…

Don’t be to eager to get the volume, enjoy your strength gains, your protein gains in your muscles instead of glycogen or water, long lasting mass gains with the maxstrength gains is what I personally strive for but respect other views, I’m only talking from my experience.

I took 2kilos of creatine in my life, first time I took it I gain like a mad, people even told me i was taking steroids… for horses! I gain 10 kilos in 2 weeks or so, a lot of strength gains associated with the atp, I think my maximalstrength didnt improve, of course even with one rep, if u can do half rep or so with a heavyweightmaybe with creatine you can finish the rep.

Endurance is a function of strenght and vice-versa…In theory I believe maximalstrenght can be measured only with an infinite small duration of force output.

But back to the point, I think is not worth the excessive volume gained,( my body looked deformed, my neck was as larger or more larger than my head in frontview) the possible sideefects that could exist even though they are not known, and the money u spent on them.
Peace
[/quote]

It is my opinion that the original poster should not heed the advice in this post. I would suggest following the advice of David Barr. His advice seems much more sound to me.

Christopher

32

I’d have to agree with old_hitter, creatine does cause your muscles to retain water, which would be a temporary gain. Ive had a few friends who have gone on this diet, and once they stopped there mass just deflated. Just goes to show you how much water your putting into your muscles. But for some people its about the looks, so i understand that way. But if you want to be carful still cuz there hasnt been much known about long term effects. So id say to take a break between cycles. Plus the fast growth of muscles from steroids or creatine are more prone to injuries.

I dont know why you guys are picking on old_hitter. remember where we are, in a forum. You want to diss somebody do it off the forum! you guys sound like your 12.

33

[quote]stm01 wrote:
I’d have to agree with old_hitter, creatine does cause your muscles to retain water, which would be a temporary gain. Ive had a few friends who have gone on this diet, and once they stopped there mass just deflated. Just goes to show you how much water your putting into your muscles. But for some people its about the looks, so i understand that way. But if you want to be carful still cuz there hasnt been much known about long term effects. So id say to take a break between cycles. Plus the fast growth of muscles from steroids or creatine are more prone to injuries.

I dont know why you guys are picking on old_hitter. remember where we are, in a forum. You want to diss somebody do it off the forum! you guys sound like your 12.[/quote]

Interesting first post. Maybe you should read the introductory page to T-Nation.

34

[quote]stm01 wrote:

you guys sound like your 12.[/quote]

your [sic] wrong.

BTW-I want this thread to DIE, but c’mon, how could I resist this?

35

[quote]David Barr wrote:
stm01 wrote:

you guys sound like your 12.

your [sic] wrong.

BTW-I want this thread to DIE, but c’mon, how could I resist this?[/quote]

Yeah and I think old_hitter has a stunt double now. I couldn’t resist that either.

36

[quote]Petedacook wrote:

Yes, I admit I am a jackass and I have no problem pointing at stupid fucks like you and laughing.

Go ahead and make more of an ass of yourself. Your new here, and already reaching epic proportions of stupidity.

Good luck with the creatine swollen neck muscles bro.

[/quote]

You must have a great life to have pleasure insulting people on online foruns and great courage too!

You dont have problem to point to stupid fucks, right, pointing to the mirror shouldnt be a problem to you, but if you did that live to someone else you would have a big problem, that’s why you dont insult people on the street because they would make u a punching bag, so go easy internet warrior, find your glories elsewhere not on the lame battlefield that is anonymous online forum or continue to be the coward rat you are.

37

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
alright, we’ll let you in on the joke since it is at your expense. your wrong is one of dave barr’s favorite things to nit pick about. the correct form is you’re wrong. however in this case your wrong applies too, as in your bad, or my bad, or my wrong. part two: i purposely misspelled spelling and grammar (after spelling correctly back on the last page of this thread in my post where i chided you for failing to make a logical arguement) to poke fun at your spelling and grammar. now that was pretty infantile of me, but i have to amuse myself somehow, what’s your excuse, are you hungarian?

[/quote]

Dont let me know about your sissy private amusements, i don’t care.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
my real theory is you stuffed your face while ‘on’ creatine, like most do, and most your ‘gains’ was bloat. well maybe fat is more correct, certainly explains the stretch marks. i don’t even have to think independently to come up with that.
[/quote]

The smartest thing u said in your life, it took some time, but you got there! If I had to chose a theory to explain my experience i would chose that too, but since I’m not making any theory or proving a point only making hypothesis and negative ones towards creatine to counter-balance the: creatine is all good without negative side-effects, an idea parrots like you repeat mindlessly.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
now that i’m done playing, have you thought of the fact that many of the researchers who published supportive studies where actually out to disprove the use of creatine? or that there are long term studies out there?

[/quote]

You’re done playing with yourself…ok good for you!

So many conjectures. I thought you only talked “facts”. But you are able to hypothesise, congratulations!
Please show me the long term studies then.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
lets go with no since independent thinking requires that we ignore such evidence and make whatever idiotic thought you cobble together in your head the new theory.

it too bad you weren’t on creatine when you injured your head, because it would have prevented some of the brain damage.[/quote]

Again, where did I tried to construct a new theory, how many times I have to repeat myself for you to understand?
Not anymore, read my posts again without being retarded… obviously that’s not possible, my bad! And you never suffered braing damage, incredible…

Geez the creatine should have given you some extra IQ points! still not enough… sorry

38

Right after my posts in this thread that cause so much comotion, J. Berardi wrote on “cool tips” that he only prescribed 2-3 grams of creatine a day to wrestling athletes to avoid bloating, and inumerous accounts on several topics in this forum about problems with creatine suplementing, emerged.

People who defend blindly institutionalized ideas and become so aroused when others question it are simply morons.

For my part this thread is dead since it has nothing to do with the topic anymore. I wont reply and see this thread again.