Cycle with or without Testosterone

I’ve been going back and forth about adding T to my cycle. People like Nelson Montana argue against its use due to supression, Big Cat theorizes that is should be part of any good cycle and he doesn’t like the synthetics.

Need some help.

Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this one.

The science says any anabolic is going to surpress, so the argument for not using it because it surpresses is invalid.

It really depends on what you’re looking for, Test vs. the host of synthetics… they each offer unique benefits and side effects. I suggest you read up more until you can come to your own conclusion.

That said, I think there are very few vets who do not use Test.

from what i hear you must have test to grow,that is if you want to grow big muscles.

warhorse is correct in his statement about suppression. but, the test we use is also a synthetic hormone. heman is right to a point as well. any good mass cycle will need to include test. usually at or above 500mgs/wk. i like a gram. the rest depends on yuor needs. if you are cutting then a tren/winny cycle is just peachy. see what i mean? its all in what you are trying to do.

i lost all respect for nelson montana a long time ago…

A cycle without Test and Flintstone vitamins unthinkable. Really, Drago is correct the only time I drop test is during cutting. I will say my Test, Deca, and D-bol stack (I normally use EQ in place of Deca however my joints where killing me ) has been causing some bloating.
Good luck

Thanks for the insightful reply’s. I pretty much concluded from this and some more searching and talking with others that test is mandatory and total shut down is actually desired while on to get any good gains. The theory about partial supression is bogus. Guys have problems recovering from Anavar just as bad as Test.

I personally don’t think that it should be looked at in terms of suppresion alone. There are steroids out there that are shown to improve collegen etc. There are steroids that show good strength gains without size gains. Test has proven to actually be a great for both strength and size. Although I’ve read reports where collogen synthesis is inhibited by testosterone so you get strong but you rip a pectoral muscle experience joint pain or your face gets like leather or whatever. In addition androgenic side effects ie balding, prostate, acne etc etc etc should all be taken into consideration. Some steroids will still suppress you but will not activate the libido or help with testosterone/estrogen imbalance causeing depression or moodiness. But test will really help alleviate these symptoms. So I would try to balance out your cycles. I personally am starting to look at the use of things like primo, or EQ, or both with very little test added. Rather then the other way around.

Go with test, its the only way to fly

Spook, I like what you’re saying, but I feel like I get beat on here when I say TEst should be included, but at low doses in order to avoid the many problems associated with high doses of Test.

So let other guys cycle how ever the fuck they want to… I like doin a gram of test a week too. I am just not sure that the benefits can’t be realized without the increased liabilities of high test cycles.
Think about it. I’d rather have good working joints etc. good skin, hair, no chainsaw required for shaving, and gain 5lbs per cycle and lose 1-2 then gain 10lbs and lose 5 with the increased androgenic test related side effects. But I might change my mind again next month. The trick in my mind is figuring out the balance so you still feel good when on cycle and post cycle.

"Although I’ve read reports where collogen synthesis is inhibited by testosterone so you get strong but you rip a pectoral muscle experience joint pain or your face gets like leather or whatever. In addition androgenic side effects ie balding, prostate, acne etc etc "

Spook, I think your right about test, look at Jay Cutler’s skin lately. EQ may solve the joint and leathery skin issues. 3x collagen syntheisis, better than deca.

I’m convinced, you should enjoy your cycles. nothing beats the well being of test on a cycle.

Just pulled this from another board. To quote Big Cat:

"This is just for shits and giggles, it should not be taken as advice or even a gold standard, just a handy tool.

We all know that testosterone is by far the most health conscious choice for those dabbling in illicit performance enhancement. To such an extent that I personally believe that any non-competitive athlete should refrain from using anything else as long as possible. But we also know that in very high doses testosterone’s effects no longer increase linearly. At which point adding more testosterone is fairly useless and another drug must be additioned."

I take anything Nelson Montana says with a grain of salt, too. He kinda made his way onto my shit list.

As for test, I wouldn’t do ANY cycle w/o a base of test. That’s just me.

It all comes down to what your goals are. Fact of the matter is ANY STEROID can cause suppression…so that is not a factor when referring to Test. I do believe though that for overall health that more Anabolic less androgenic cycles should be used. However, if you look at the facts you’ll see that Test has much more to offer when used. Those with higher test levels throughout there lives are shown to live longer and have far less health related problems. Although that may not apply to bodybuilder or recreational lifters using a gram a week.