T Nation

Cycle Tweaking


quick question here for you guys, here's how my cycle plan looks now.

W 1-10: 750 mg Test E
W 1-7: 350 mg Tren A
w 1-6: 40 mg dbol

Now I had not planned on frontloading this time around pretty much just because I like being "on". I also figured I'd just let the dbol kickstart things along with the tren. Afer reading some other threads in here though some guys were saying they liked having the test/dbol together for as long as possible, that it produced better gains then just using a kickstart.

So I was wondering if I should leave it as is, or drop the test to 8 weeks or so and frontload with about a gram on the first shot. This way I will have the benefits of all 3 drugs for as long as possible, but less total time on the test.

Any thoughts?


I would frontload and shorten to 8 weeks max test e. I would do it like this:

W1-8: test e 750mg/w (~215mg EOD) Frontload 750mg on Day1
W5-10: dbol 40mg/d
w4-10: Tren a 350 mg/w (5omg/d)
W1-10: Adex 0.25mg/d or as needed
w2-8: hcg 250 iu EODor at least 2x/w

w11-14: Nolva 40mg/d | 40mg/d | 20mg/d | 20mg/d

That makes for 10 productive weeks and no downtime before PCT and a strong recovery helped by the HCG use.

Edit: You might actually want to stop the tren a few days before the dbol to ensure adequate aromatizing AAS are present in your system as long as the Tren ace since Tren ace has a longer half life than dbol. Either that or simply move the Tren weeks to 3-9 while leaving the dbol weeks as above.


Personally, I would do the frontload with a gram for the first two weeks and the rest run at 750. The tren is right on the money, and I would bump the dbol to 50. I would also have every single auxillary drug needed on hand and in plentiful stock Way. The AI admin IME can be used as needed. I know this factor is heavily user specific. If things do spring up 60mg of nolva coupled with immediate AI admin IME has proven to be enough to stop any further developments. As for the PCT, I'm a fan of the stasis/taper as it enabled me minimize the sense of being "off" both psychologically and physically.



Thanks DH and Turbo, I think I'll go with the frontload.

DH that cycle is kind of wierd hah I'll keep that in mind though. I just don't know if I want to drop the test before anything else.

And yes I have tons of nolva/AI on hand turbo



You can't see any advantage to increasing the productivity of your waiting weeks before PCT? I'm not saying it is the only way to go, but it definitely offers some advantages.

1) Turbo charge your waiting weeks
2) Using dbol once test e has fully kicked in to max synergistic effects.
3) Ditto with Tren, preventing Tren sides in the early weeks before test e kicks in fully.


Oh yeah, on this badboy you don't want to be all "Damn, that "one" hasn't sent my stuff and my nipples are getting itchy!" No fun indeed.


No I do, but what I'm saying is I thought the whole purpose of front loading was to achieve peak blood levels after the first injection. If that's the case why start the dbol and tren so late?


yah...those guys completely screwed me over last time and I wasn't very happy so they sent me 2x what I originally ordered to say sorry.

Funny thing is I ordered other stuff almost 2 months ago, they told me it was shipped and it still isn't here. Time to go bitch again...


DH tried to explain this but maybe you didn't understand.

In your original plan you wanted to inject Test E for 10 weeks. During weeks 11 and 12 what are you going to have in your system? Sub-optimal levels of testosterone. Basically you shut yourself down but don't have enough androgens in your system to give great gains.

If you want to go ahead and start the dbol on day one. But use your Tren so you do your last Tren inject is roughly 2 weeks after your last Test E shot.

That way, you can have gain producing levels all they way up until PCT.

DH also suggested that you run the Test E only 8 weeks so your cycle would end up being 10 weeks (you run your tren two weeks past the test).

That is how I would do it anyway and will likely do the same cycle in the future.


That is the purpose of front loading. IME though, I really start to feel it after the first 2 weeks even when front loaded. Hence the suggestion. If you feel the test E right away, then in your case you could start Tren earlier. I still think it would be good to use dbol as a waiting week enhancer though, and since you only want to use Tren for 7 weeks anyway; why not start using it when the test e effects are maxed? If you decide to do that, you may as well have week 7 of Tren ace coinciding with your first waiting week before PCT to further supercharge your waiting weeks and still have the dbol overlapping for one additional week to counter any Tren ace sides.

I think it all comes down to laying down the groundwork and reaping the benefits of being patient. Sure we all want to jump in with both feet and fire on all pistons from day 1. I think this alternative allows for a constant buildup of enhancement that will provide more bang for the buck in the final analysis with zero down time before PCT.

Don't mean to be a hard head :wink:


So no clen...Have never had a problem with them the only exception is that I made on massive order. Time to look into different companies.


ah makes sense now thanks for clarifying. Time to copy/paste your cycle outline hah, thanks fellas.


You are confusing a frontload and a kick.

A frontload is a high dose of an esterified product - say a shot of 1000mg of enanth followed by 333mg 2x/wk there after, where a kick is ususlly a different, faster acting compound which will give results as you wait for a slower acting drug to work..



Keep us posted on how this works for you in "real life" and whether you would make changes based on your experience in future cycles. You are the perfect test case - you big beast....


Are you a Homosexual man Dynamo?


Brook, I am sure Big Gay Al has hacked your userid :wink:

Short answer: No...


lol.. you beast.. ;p


eh..."ya, big sexy beast"




Yah, no clen :frowning:

It's funny because I have 3 friends who use the same place and every time it has only taken them 1 week for their product to arrive. For me it takes a month and several emails lol. Bad luck.

IMO this site is by far the best, so I hope we can work things out. The prices are like 1/3 of some other chems sites I've looked at.