T Nation

Cycle Start, What's Your Opinion?

im looking to do Dbol and suppliment with Deca, Ive been training for close to 3 years, Im 6" at 13.5st (188lbs) im finding it tough to get past that so im now looking to aid my development with the gear .
After reading up i found a decent first cycle would involve the two ive stated, whats everyone elses opinion? what was you first cycle? was it effective?

Most peoples first cycles are not the best, due to undereducation.

For example many choose an oral for their first, i used dbol in a diamond pattern in 1998. It was a good cycle that i lost every “gain” i thought i made afterward.

Deca and Dianabol is a great stack for size, But you will need some estrogen control with an Aromatase inhibitor, a plan to come off the cycle - for ecample a SERM PCT and you MAY find you need an extra supplementation of some DHT component - i always find that proviron was enough with deca, but Testosterone would be better in the cycle - IF it wasnt your first.

You should stick to one compound for your first at a moderate dosage to assess how you respond to AAS and the best way to do that is use Testosterone at 350-500mg/week.
This is due to the fact that testosterone is the real male hormone, nothing added or tken away, and it has an anabolic profile of 100 and an androgenic profile of 100 - so you have a baseline effect to learn from.

I think you will find this to be the opinion of most people here. You will be asked your age, weight, height, lift stats, years training and goals.

Read the stickies, and bear in mind that the shorter the cycle the easier it is to recover from.

Let the flames begin!

:wink:

Brook

thanks mate much appreciated

Im 27
6ft
188lbs
training close to 3 yrs now

Im looking to increase size and stregth, but strugling now think ive hit a bit of a plateu.

MONDAY/TEUSDAY ? Chest/Triceps

Chest
· Incline dumbbell press: 28kg (8), 30kg (6), 32kg (4)
· Flat bench press: 42.5kg (8), 52.5kg (6), 62.5kg (4)
· Cable fly?s: 40kg (8), 45kg (6), 50kg (4) (each side)
· Leaning chest dips: 3 sets of 10

Triceps
· Tricep press (machine): 22.5kg (8), 27.5kg (6), 32.5kg (4)
· Lying tricep extension: 10kg (8), 15kg (6), 20kg (4)
· Tricep Dips: 3 sets of 15

*3 sets of 25 press-ups & 3 sets of 25 sit-ups with 20kg on chest.

WEDNESDAY/THRUSDAY? Back/Biceps

Back
· Wide grip lat pull down (machine): 60kg (8), 65kg (6), 70kg (4)
· Seated row (machine): 60kg (8), 65kg (6), 70kg (4)
· Bent over dumbbell rows: 34kg (8), 36kg (6), 38kg (4)
· Bent over barbell row: 30kg (8), 35kg (6), 40kg (4)

Biceps
· Seated alternate curls: 12kg (8), 14kg (6), 16kg (4)
· Hammer curls: 14kg (8), 16kg (6), 18kg (4)
· Ez Bar: 22.5kg (8), 27.5kg (6), 32.5kg (4)

*3 sets of 25 press-ups & 3 sets of 25 sit-ups with 20kg on chest.

FRIDAY/SATURDAY ? Shoulders/Traps/Legs

Shoulders
· Seated shoulder press: 20kg (8), 22kg (6), 24kg (4)
· Seated barbell military press: 22.5kg (8), 27.5kg (6), 32.5kg (4)
· Side lateral raises : 10kg (8), 12kg (6), 14kg (4)

Traps
· Dumbbell shoulder shrugs: 28kg (8), 30kg (6), 32kg (4 to fail)

Legs
· Seated leg curls: 50kg (12), 55kg (10), 60kg (8)
· Leg press: 150kg (12), 160kg (10), 170kg (8)
· Calf extensions/raises: 40kg (10), 45kg (8), 50kg (6)

*3 sets of 25 press-ups & 3 sets of 25 sit-ups with 20kg on chest.

Hey dude,

It’s been said many times before and will be said many times again… start with test. Dbol + test if necessary is ok, generally just a lot more of the same type of sides that you’d get with test. The type you control with regular, in-cycle use of an AI, followed by a solid PCT.

I know that in the other thread that you bumped Prisoner had written years earlier of his first cycle (tren, deca etc…) but that isn’t best for a neophyte like you.

You’ll probably get flamed for your stats though. Everyone hits hard patches so I’m not going to say that you aren’t doing enough, but you probably aren’t training optimally. While 3 years in the gym isn’t that much in the big scheme of things, you aren’t pushing even remotely heavy weights based on the posted workout.

I’d certainly bump up the leg work, try to increase strength across the board, and eat like crazy for 6 months. Then maybe consider whether you want to add AAS.

brilliant mate, all advicxe is welcome, im going to revise my workout on Monday as like you say even i dont feel its working me to my optimum anymore.

what sort of workout are you doing? are you on any type of cycle?

[quote]bazmin wrote:
brilliant mate, all advicxe is welcome, im going to revise my workout on Monday as like you say even i dont feel its working me to my optimum anymore.

what sort of workout are you doing? are you on any type of cycle?[/quote]

Everyone is different so what works for me might well not be best for you.

That said, I trained DC style for 5 “blasts” (it was roughly 7 months, I guess) and really liked my results. There’s a good thread here in the bodybuilding forum on DC training that you can soak up, or you can look at the threads at IntenseMuscle.com. It’s hard work… greater frequency (2 way split, 3x / week) but less volume, doing largely heavy compound lifting with rest pause sets and intense stretching, and planned exercise rotation so as to avoid CNS burnout.

The program gets a little tough without a decent spotter after a while though, given the nature of rest-pause sets (or at least some high quality machines) so I’m currently on a simple 4 day split over a 5-6 day period right now. I always log my workouts & switch things around in some way if my bodyweight or strength stagnates.

As for your other question, I finished a relatively short, simple cycle recently. With my situation, I need to be pretty restrained as far as usage goes. Beyond that, I’d rather keep the details private.

cheers

edit - I probably should mention that Eric Cressey has some great ideas wrt basic strength training that you can read on TNation & in his books (Maximum Strength etc…), and also so too does Joe DeFranco with his WS4SB3 approach (google).

excellent, thanks again ill check those out, much appreciated

[quote]bazmin wrote:
thanks mate much appreciated

Im 27
6ft
188lbs
training close to 3 yrs now

Im looking to increase size and stregth, but strugling now think ive hit a bit of a plateu.

MONDAY/TEUSDAY ? Chest/Triceps

Chest
· Incline dumbbell press: 28kg (8), 30kg (6), 32kg (4)
· Flat bench press: 42.5kg (8), 52.5kg (6), 62.5kg (4)
· Cable fly?s: 40kg (8), 45kg (6), 50kg (4) (each side)
· Leaning chest dips: 3 sets of 10

Triceps
· Tricep press (machine): 22.5kg (8), 27.5kg (6), 32.5kg (4)
· Lying tricep extension: 10kg (8), 15kg (6), 20kg (4)
· Tricep Dips: 3 sets of 15

*3 sets of 25 press-ups & 3 sets of 25 sit-ups with 20kg on chest.

WEDNESDAY/THRUSDAY? Back/Biceps

Back
· Wide grip lat pull down (machine): 60kg (8), 65kg (6), 70kg (4)
· Seated row (machine): 60kg (8), 65kg (6), 70kg (4)
· Bent over dumbbell rows: 34kg (8), 36kg (6), 38kg (4)
· Bent over barbell row: 30kg (8), 35kg (6), 40kg (4)

Biceps
· Seated alternate curls: 12kg (8), 14kg (6), 16kg (4)
· Hammer curls: 14kg (8), 16kg (6), 18kg (4)
· Ez Bar: 22.5kg (8), 27.5kg (6), 32.5kg (4)

*3 sets of 25 press-ups & 3 sets of 25 sit-ups with 20kg on chest.

FRIDAY/SATURDAY ? Shoulders/Traps/Legs

Shoulders
· Seated shoulder press: 20kg (8), 22kg (6), 24kg (4)
· Seated barbell military press: 22.5kg (8), 27.5kg (6), 32.5kg (4)
· Side lateral raises : 10kg (8), 12kg (6), 14kg (4)

Traps
· Dumbbell shoulder shrugs: 28kg (8), 30kg (6), 32kg (4 to fail)

Legs
· Seated leg curls: 50kg (12), 55kg (10), 60kg (8)
· Leg press: 150kg (12), 160kg (10), 170kg (8)
· Calf extensions/raises: 40kg (10), 45kg (8), 50kg (6)

*3 sets of 25 press-ups & 3 sets of 25 sit-ups with 20kg on chest.

[/quote]

Well, I guess I’ll start the flaming…
Did I read this right? You’re 188 lbs, benching 137.5 lbs for 4 reps…you’ve been training for 3 years…and you want to use gear? I really, really don’t think gear is the solution to your problem at this point.

I don’t understand your split either…are you saying you work out 6 days a week…or 3 days a week (two muscle groups per session)?
You might as well post what your diet looks like, 'cause everyone is gonna be wondering if that has something to do with your stats…

6 days, very muc open to suggestion on it, im looking to revise this week.

typical day might look like this for me

Breakfast
muesli or porridge with some dried fruit and milk. 3 egg whites (drink)

Snack
Protein shake mixeed with ultra fine oats 5 strawberry’s + 1tbsp flazseed oil

Lunch
Baked potatoe with Chicken Pasta

Snack
Yoghurt, some almonds, pumpkin seeds

Dinner
Roast Beef, potatoes, veg or chicken curry brown rice

Evening
Toast with ham or something along those lines

usually equates to aroind 4000 to 4100 per day.

Im very full at the end of each day, can you help me work on something whereby i can intake more calories without feeling like ill explode :slight_smile:

For your interest - here is my current workout.

Day 1 - Chest 9-12s:5-9r/Calves 3-6s:6-12r.
Day 2 - Back 9-12s:5-9r/Triceps 6-9s:5-9r.
Off
Day 3 - Hams 6-9s:5-9s/Quads 6-9s:5-9r.
Day 4 - Delts 9-12s:5-9r/Biceps 6-9s:5-9r.
Off
Day 5 - Chest 9-12s:5-9r/Calves 3-6s:6-12r.

I will do this for anywhere between 4-12 weeks (6wks this time) and change the sets or rep range and a couple of exercises.

I periodise my workuts - this is a mixed type workout (ie. mixed between strength and hypertrophy) ie. low reps but not pure strength.
I would follow this with a week low intensity/recovery sessions and either a hypertrophy volume cycle or strength cycle.

Just for your comparison. As you can see my volume ATM is not too different from yours, but it changes periodically. As is often said - there is no thing as a perfect workout; All will work but only for so long.

Brook

Thanks Brook,

This is defo worth me considering as you can see , ill be changing my workout up this week and let you know how i go, this is greaty appreciated, thanks

Also what do you think of my current diet?

[quote]bazmin wrote:
Also what do you think of my current diet?[/quote]

If you arent growing, then increase gradually, that way you wont feel like you will explode - and your body will be able to get used to metabolising it without a mass sudden storage of fat if you added 1000kcal for eg.

With the quick glance i took - stuff like toast and ham is a bit - shit.
It could be made better by ensuring your bread is wholegrain, maybe a pumpernickle or flax and soya, then the ham is loaded high, lean and not that processed crap, add a water mixed whey shake and you have a better nutritional profile for that particular meal.

I wouldnt advise any restriction of carbs, if you are lean and struggle to put on weight - (if i am incorrect, correct me). If this is the case, you can loosen up the diet a little, eating steak and red meats as well as or instead of, white meats.
Eat wholegrain carbs all day, but add simple carbs in the AM and directly post workout.

If you are putting on fat and not muscle, but look lean in clothes - then the carbs would be restricted as this is likely a little insulin resistance, with bulk of carbs eaten in AM and post workout with less/none the rest of the day but with your protein and fat intake taking up the spare kcals you have dropped from the carbs.
You would eat a high carb day (low fat) once every 6-8 days…

These are very general and not too specific to you, but show the difference in diet that can be manipulated just by your storage of fat, even if weight and height etc are the same. (ie. i mean skinny-hardgainer vs. skinny-fat syndrome)

Like i said, i have only scanned this thread and your stats so dont take me too literally.

As you should know, spoon feeding info here is not how this site works but you know your body and are your own best trainer… if you are honest with yourself.

Brook