T Nation

Cycle Stack, What Do You Think?


#1

I’m planning on starting my first cycle, any comments and opinions would help

Stats - 178lb
23 y/o
6 years of working out
10-13% BF
445 / 305 / 545

Cycle

● Week 1-12 Test E & Turinabol(oral)
Running Tbol for weeks 1-4 at 60mg ED
Running Test E for weeks 1-12
-Im thinking of starting with 400mg of Test. I’ve read
everywhere that you should use 500mg but i think I’ll
start a little lower
•So it’ll be weeks 1-4 400mg , weeks 5-12 500mg[depending on how the side effects are]
•I’ll also be taking Cycle assist from competitive edge labs and fish oil.
•I don’t have an AI, I know tbol doesn’t aromatize but the test could, should I look to get aromasin before starting the cycle?

For PCT , I have nolvadex & Clomid. Would it be okay to use a test booster for PCT? Would it help my natural production again? I have 2 bottles of Monster Test, as well as fish oil & multivitamins

As for my goals, to get bigger, stronger, and leaner. So essentially i just want to put on some lean muscle, no real number in my head that i want to reach.


#2

The reason everyone always advises guys to use test only on a first cycle is because you don’t know how your body will react to it. If you have multiple compounds going then you cannot pinpoint what is causing any side effects that you may get. For that reason I would say that the tbol should probably be reserved for either another time, or potentially the last four weeks rather than the first four.

You said you’re 178lbs but didn’t give us your height. That’s a factor. Your bf range is kind of wide. The difference between 10% and 13% is a lot. I’m not saying you need precise measurements in order to satisfy strangers like me on an anonymous forum, but before you start anything try to get a very accurate reading so that you can track your progress more closely.

You should have an AI. Not everyone responds to testosterone the same way, so you’ll have to dial in the dosage and do some trial and error. Hell, some guys don’t need one at 500mg and I need 50% more than my doctor originally prescribed for my TRT dose of 200mg. Everyone is different. But have it on hand before you start.

At 23 you’re on the younger side. You probably don’t really need to run a cycle just yet, but if you’re going to do it then make sure it’s done right.

Don’t bother with a natural test booster while on pct. I haven’t seen any evidence that they work in a meaningful way. Read the stickies here about pct and what’s recommended. More and more I’m seeing guys eschew Clomid and using just Nolva on its own.

As far as your goals go, I imagine you may get some pushback for not having a number in mind. But I get what you’re looking for. It’s the old Potter Stewart definition of pornography, “I know it when I see it”. But be careful. If you don’t have a healthy respect for reality then you could end up being unhappy with the results (they can always be better, we can always do more, push harder, etc) and it could lead you down a dangerous path. We talk about the physical aspects of steroids, but sometimes we forget about the psychological ones. You can change your body rapidly, break through plateaus, and generally feel invincible. But that comes with a cost. Because when the cycle is over you start a mean reversion. And then it becomes “If I run another one and add X and Y then I can get even better”. So just be mindful of your goals and control your expectations.


#3

I appreciate the input ! , I’m 5’7 and leaning toward 10% bf


#4

Then it sounds like you’ve got a really solid foundation already. I’m the same height but about 7lbs heavier and much more bf than you. Keep us updated as you progress through the cycle and don’t be afraid to ask questions while as you go. As long as you’ve got all the gear and support sups it sounds like you’re ready to go. Best of luck.


#5

Your numbers are repeatable enough, not great, not bad. With your height at that weight I guess you have enough of a starting point. Unfortunately I don’t spend hours looking at pictures of shirtless men on the internet to know what 178 at 5’7 around 10% looks like. Plus if you are set on doing this cycle you will regardless of what anyone says. I will repeat what Iron said, you could/should be older but at least you are not 21 or even worse 18. As long as you know what it means and what you are risking by stopping your natural progression to peak natural testosterone production and what that means for you the rest of your life, then go a head and do what you want.

Again just repeating Iron, TESTOSTERONE ONLY for first cycle. People say add in a kicker so you get results earlier but the reality is (at least for me) you will feel a boost pretty quick from just test. Also within the fist week to two weeks your blood glycogen (something like that) will go up and as a result you will get a couple of pounds real early in the cycle so you don’t need to worry about having to wait for it to kick in to see or feel something.
I like that you are doing it for 12 weeks. There is no real reason or necessity to vary the dosage from 400 to 500. I ran a 400 mgs a week cycle and loved it. If you are changing the dosage to make it where you finish the bottles within a 12 week frame then it might be better to go slightly higher in the beginning to get you to your high release rate a little sooner.

I am going to say something and then repeat it, if you are dead set on running without an AI you do not want to find out you need it mid cycle and not have it IN HAND. Again you should not start the cycle weather you are going to use an AI or not, without having it IN HAND!
You stated aromasin, its good stuff. Most use arimidex but I think that is because mg for mg it’s strongest and most people are limited do to what their source carries or can get. If you are having problems locating an AI try research chemicals. I personally would put a quality UGL as more preferred than a research chemical but really I don’t see the need to pay the 5 dollars a tablet for quasi name brand arimidex from a dirt hole country to find out it is knock off and basically the same as UGL.

Like Iron said the majority are leaning towards Nolvadex. I know I react to clomid. Also I have read only one SERM not two in PCT and I have read you need both. I am stuck with just Nolvadex so. Just like the AI you need them in hand before you start. I know you said you have them but I put that in there for the next guy who reads this and sees it being stressed so hopefully he doesn’t cycle without them.

One last thing that I have been forgetting and was recently reminded of. Get blood work prior to starting so you know your baseline and thus can accurately judge your recovery.


#6

I’ll get an AI before I start, thanks for the help. That’s me , bottom photo around 163


#7

Yeah man, you’re ready. Looks like you’ve put in a ton of hard work so far. Keep us updated as the cycle progresses. Best of luck.


#8

Nice job man!

I know some people who already use steroids and they aren’t looking nearly as good as you.

I think you’ll be a beast when you hit the juice.