T Nation

Cycle Questions


#1

Weight: 185 (lift at 198), <7% bf last time I was in the hydro tank
Age: 20
Goals: strength and ~10 pound weight gain, main goal is strength. I have a competition on the last day of the cycle, so I want to be in my best possible condition for that.
Lifts: I would not like to go into more details than a 3 lift raw total of ~1350

Cycle:
weeks 1-6: 85 mg Test prop EOD
85 mg Masteron prop EOD
30-50 mg Test Suspension before hard workouts
Adex .25 mg EOD, upping dose if necessary
Weeks 4-6
Oral Turinabol: 30 mg/day

PCT: week 7 : Clomid 100 mg/day
week 8: Clomid 50 mg/day

Nolva also on hand

Questions:
Any advice on the test suspension dosing before workouts? would 30 mg be good or is 50 mg better?

Should I bump the tbol to 40 or 50 mg/day?

Thanks,
GF


#2

I would think that Halo might be a good replacement for the T-Bol, giving that increased strength and aggression that turinabol wont.

I dont know much about Test Suspension per se - other than what i know about Test itself.. and i would have thought that the higher dose WOULD be more effective, but i would also have thought that a simply higher dosage of Test Prop throughout would be better - it is more suited to systemic use than pre-workout/Acute use.. although i know Susp is used for this in strength sports sometimes, it would be used on the day of the meet/comp rather than during training IIRC.
I know that you dont want too much weight, but with Test being the only size builder there - stringent use of letro and control of energy(calories) would allow you to use a good 500mg TP/wk with little water gain, and a good, solid 10lbs of muscle.

Have you though about adding Tren into that?

I am no strength athlete though so i know there is better info to come.

Brook


#3

I have considered the use of tren and halo, along with a few other, but this is what I have decided on for quite a few reasons.

I am sticking to <500 mg of T per week because I blow up on the stuff. I have gained 10-15 pounds in 2 weeks on 500 a week. So no need for overkill.

The main reason I chose suspension is so I can boost my T levels extra high for my workouts, hopefully leading to more energy and possibly strength. I plan to continue this usage before my competition as well, if it works. This is kind of an experiment, but the main thing Im trying to nail down is the dosing.


#4

2 weeks of clomid for PCT isn't enough. Go with 4. I prefer 4 weeks of nolva for PCT but if you like clomid, that's fine.


#5

x2

and I've used clomid + nolva both in lower doses and it seemed to work well too fwiw.


#6

You say you'd use test upto (<) 500mg/wk but you are dosing it at 85mg EOD. That is 297.5mg/wk!

What about 350mg test prop and 350mg mast prop, both dosed at 50mg/day?

In light of you blowing up on Test - which is ALL water i assure you (in two weeks) -
Letrozole will fix that issue, PLUS susp will aromatise real fast (due to being esterless), so you better be on the top of your AI dosages, as that will bloat you up too.

The turinabol (which i have not used) i would run at 50mg a day, i have read frequently this is the best dose for this drug for many.

I will leave the Test susp dose for a strength athlete who has used it for this reason mate - all i will say on the matter is take the ester weight into consideration, and add it to the total test level at the end of the day. :wink:

Best,

Brook


#7

I will continue the PCT for another week or two as long as I dont feel recovered, thanks.

Brook, as far as Test dosing: ~300 a week of prop + 3* 30-50 a week of Suspension = 390-450 a week. taking into account ester weight (or lack there of) it is equivilent to 408 - 480 a week of test prop only. Of course that range depends on how i choose to dose the suspension. (My bad on not clarifying how often the suspension would be taken in the op)

Thanks for the tbol advice, I will try it up to 50mg/day, and lower if I have problem (excessive pumps etc..)

Still very interested in hearing people's opinion on the suspension.


#8

If you are going to use the suspension but not up the overall prop dosage I would go with 30-35mg but twice a day ED. Use a 1ml slin pin with half the dosage each time.

Once upon waking and the other pre work out.


#9

Lilguy, I see what your saying but that would end up increasing the amount of test by an large amount. My goal with the suspension is just to help with my workout energy and such (i will see if it even has this effect). I also dont think my suspension will fit through a slin pin, I have asked the lab and they said 25 g is the smallest (which seemed kind of weird to me).

I have the test at 300 a week for a reason - because i dont want to gain much weight. at 30-35 mg 2x day that will put me over 500 mg of test a week, which is more than I would like with the masteron and tbol on top if it.


#10

Well lets put it this way then... shit of get off the pot. 300mg/wk is barly over trt dosage depending on who you talk to. If you dont want go gain much weight then spend your money elsewhere on some high quality food and supplements.

It doenst sound like AAS is what you need for the goals outlined then.


#11

So if I dont want to gain a ton of weight, ala your same goals, then I am wasting my time, money and effort on these drugs. I said I want to gain strength, and this is what im asking about, and you have not given any advice about planning this cycle for my goals.

I dont feel I need to justify the reason I planned my cycle like I did and with those doses, but I could happily do it for you in a PM, lilguy.

Anyway, as of now, Im thinking I will start with 40 mg/day (before training) of suspension and go from there.


#12

I think the point lillguy is making is similar to the one i tried to make above - Testosterone is best used as a systemic drug.. thus steady levels over time provide the gains in size and/or strength that one may seek - not as an ergogenic aid.

This is the exact reason why halotestin has been recommended by myself and others on a number of occasions.. because it is better for the goals you seek from the suspension.

Test suspension is simply Testosterone with No Ester (TNE), and the first testosterone drug synthesized but due to its extremely fast metabolism, esters were attached to the drug molecule to delay the metabolism of the depot by different times (according to ester length).. that said, all tests work by the same mechanisms and means - and it is best used as a chronic, systemic drug... both for strength or size.

There are steroids that give a kick for lifts, halotestin, cheque drops etc.

Back to lillguy's post - you seem unable to use this advice and are insistent on using suspension for a pre-training boost (which WILL have an effect on immediate aggression and ergo a little strength, but not as efficient as regular dosing would), and i think he may have become frustrated at your stubborn ignorance of advices given.

AFAIK, susp IS used as a pre-lift drug, but ON the day of the lift, not during training before sessions as an ergogenic aid - as the results given by this form of administration are temporary and shortlived - while the effects given by regular use of the drug providing stable levels will result in gains being more permanent - as permanent as any gains can be at least.

I see your point of view - but IIRC, there are better ways to do this.

JMO

Brook


#13

Damn Brook, you use a lot of abbreviations, ha.

Well I prefer to stick to the protocol I designed initially - with the low T-prop and overall test. I guess I will report back when I know how its going with these doses, or if i had to raise them as some of you suggest. Thanks for the input.


#14

Starting in a couple weeks, I will be using both suspension and halo in a 2 on 2 off scheme to support training, and I will be cycling my training so that the highest intensity week is the 2nd week of "on". If you keep an eye out, I will log it, and you can see how I like it first, if you want to use me as a guinea pig.

I'll be running 100mg susp, 20mg halo, and .5mg adex/day.

If you hit this up before I do, send me a PM and let me know how you like it!

Good luck!