T Nation

Cycle Proposal After Long Shutdown


#1

Some of you guys may know my situation from some of my posts.
In short, in january I came off a test/tren of 14 weeks and it took around 8 months for me to recover. My blood levels are now normal although I am still getting abit of ED.
I am proposing a series of 6 week cycles.

I am thinking:
Wk 1-6 Test 400: 400mg EOD
Wk 4-8 Dbol: 40mg/d
Wk 1-6 hCG: 500iu 2x/wk
Wk 1-8 adex: .5mg E3D
PCT Wk 8 : 40/40/20

Off for 4 weeks then repeat.
How does that look? Is using a long ester like cyp/enanthate in the 400 a stupid idea for a 6 week cycle?
Considering my sensitive HPTA, does the off-period seem ok? Or am I setting myself up for another disaster?


#2

If you have access, why don't you try Test Prop and NPP. I think your cycle is way too short for test 400. And if you're worried about your off-time being too short, then why don't you listen to yourself rather than trying look for justification from others. Good luck.


#3

I meant from an endocrine perspective, obviously I am not expecting anyone to know my recuperative ability following a cycle but I meant in general off-cycle periods.

I will not touch 19-nors ever again, and test prop seems to immobilise me for a couple of days post injection.


#4

Suspension is surely the best choice. No ester! PCT the day after.

Not all prop creates such intense pain. Besides, test 400 is known to be extremely painful to inject anyway.

400mg of test 400 is ineffective for a six week cycle. The ratio of long to short esters is almost 3.5 to 1! By week 3 you will have injected about 225 mg of prop. Hardly anything.

The cypionate and enanthate will just be coming into force when you end your cycle.


#5

Thank you for your reply Butthole.
I think you may have misread, I plan on doing 400mg EOD, not 400mg a week.
So that works out to 1600mg one week and 1200mg the next.

Thus far you guys have commented on the cycle itself but not on my situation of severe shutdown. Any thoughts on that? In regards to running a cycle after being shutdown for so long?


#6

Not all test 400's are created equal. Not all have the same ratios of long and short esters (some have no short esters at all), and definitely not all have pain associated with them whatsoever.

Agreed though, that for a 6 weeker, straight up prop or suspension are better suited, if he's willing to pin everyday.


#7

Pinning everyday is not a problem, I just wanted to use test400 because it made me a sexual animal.


#8

Wow I really misread that. Still not ideal.

As for your shutdown, maybe if you tapered at the end of the cycle it would help you reboot?

Here's the most important thing that really sticks out to me though: Exogenous testosterone is in your system for 8-9 weeks (6 week cycle plus 2-3 for the cyp to clear). That means you're only giving yourself 7 weeks to recover (3 weeks PCT and 4 weeks off). For a person who took 8 months to recover from his last cycle that does not seem wise.

That's a pretty high dose, not quite a blast, but I think you should really consider using something else. Test e at the least since it kicks faster than cyp.

I think it's more important to retain the ability to function as an animal off cycle than it is to be a cannon while you're on!


#9

Fair points. In light of your advice I am thinking to scrap the 6 week cycle and go on a more conventional 10weeker.
This is my revised cycle with a test taper:

Wk 1-10 Test 400 - 1200mg/wk
Wk 1-4 Dbol - 40mg/d
Wk 8-12 Winstrol - 60mg/d
Wk 10-12 Test Prop - 350mg/wk
Wk 1-12 hCG - 500iu 2x/wk
Wk 1-16 adex - .5mg E3D (tapering down from wk 12-16)

Wk 12-16 Test prop/Mast prop - 50mg/50mg wk (waiting period)
Wk 17 Test prop/Mast prop - 40mg/40mg
Wk 18 Test prop/Mast prop - 30mg/30mg
Wk 19 Test prop/Mast prop - 20mg/20mg
Wk 20 Test prop/Mast prop - 10mg/10mg
Wk 16-20 Nolva - 20/20/20/10 ???

How does this look? Ive taken it from prisoners protocol. Since a test taper is supposed be better for the guys who are slow recoverers I thought I could try it.
I am thinking about the test prop/mast prop combo due to the libido benefits.

My questions are:
- Is my hCG dose overkill?
- With masteron prisoner says SERM's are not needed, should I still do a SERM to help with LH/FSH?
- Does this protocol not cause my natural testosterone to be suppressed for a total of 20 weeks, is this not longer then a conventional cycle with a standard PCT?


#10

Wow, what a cycle!

I have heard of people using 3000IU of HCG a week because they wanted to have a baby on cycle! One thing that makes the test taper look good for you is that you have 3-4 weeks instead of the standard 2 between HCG and PCT in which you re sensitize yourself to LH. A lot of people do 'blasts' in their last two weeks using it.

I think you should always run a SERM just in case:

Bill Roberts wrote: It[Masteron] is I think very unlikely to be a selective estrogen receptor modulator but it likely has some anti-aromatase activity and may have some direct estrogen receptor antagonist activity. But for example -- and going for a more extreme example than necessary -- a gyno-sensitive person should not assume that he could take 1000 mg/week of testosterone ester without a SERM or anti-aromatase in the expectation that 200 mg/week of Masteron would cover him. I wouldn't expect it to do so.

It seems that Masteron works more like an AI than a SERM. You are gyno-sensitive (prolactin issues from GH), and you recover slowly. On the other hand, your Masteron is equal to your prop dosage so it might work fine!

Prisoner did say his libido is better when he replaces the SERM with Masteron. Ask some more people with experience about your particular situation

This does suppress your natural test longer but the idea is the test taper and the effectiveness of the cycle. What's going to be worse, feeling pressure to repeat your first cycle proposition with insufficient recovery time because you didn't make the gains you wanted on it, or running a longer cycle that you are comfortable taking more time to recover from because it actually worked?

Your recovery time may be faster or slower than it would be with your first proposal but you will surely gain more on this cycle AND I expect you will be taking more time off.


#11

Ok so I have found out that test 400 has 100mg/ml of Testosterone Undecanoate.
If we assume that the half-life of Undecanoate is 15 days (some say its more like 8 days), by week 16 I will have 37.5mg of it left in my blood considering in week 10 I had 300mg (3ml injected).
Bearing in mind I will also have prop in me which started in week 10.
As you can see I have enough time for undecanoate to leave my system and be under 100mg/wk of testosterone to begin the taper.
What do you guys think? Is the half-life I have used wrong? Am I over-complicating things?

Butthole: Will drop the dose of hCG to 250iu 2x/wk


#12

You should be ok even with the undecanoate.

This is a little complicated but it isn't unmanageable.

It should be noted, however, that the complication is due to your use of long ester blends.


#13

Agreed.
I suppose I have given enough time for undecanoate to clear anyway.
Bloods came back today, everything normal except prolactin.
PROLACTIN WAS HIGH, 207mu/L 57-271.
Obviously due to the GH.


#14

Do you have cabergoline and bromo?


#15

Yes I have both, pharm-grade.
I hate the way they make me feel, frankly absolutely shit. I may try a very low dose such as 1mg a week. No wonder why I was listening to love songs and feeling lethargic lol must have been the prolactin.
Btw cycle starts tomorrow :slight_smile:


#16

Im thinking to do a conventional PCT now, Im cowarding out of the taper based on the fact of how long I will be suppressed for.
Any input?
VTballa? BBB? FG? Cortes? Bonez?


#17

Use Test P - for the obvious reason that you can run a shorter cycle - pin in sub q - this works as well as IM and does not produce the post injection pain that you normally get.

If I was in your shoes and wanting to cycle again after a bad shutdown I would dip my toe in the water first. Maybe a cycle of orals, supported with D Asp Acid and nolva in an attempt to maintain testicular function. Dose orals only in morning - take weekend off. Not the best cycle but at least you can end it immediately with any problems and it will give you an insight into the ability of your endocrine system to withstand ASS outside 19-nors


#18

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#19

Its ironic because I remember you helping me with hCG dose when I was shutdown lol.
What volume do you recommend of pinning subQ?


#20

Maybe you can send some over to me :wink:
A GnRH agonist huh? Have you used this? Does it work? Any bloodwork before and after?
From what I have read a single 100mcg dose can restore normal HPTA function. Wow, if this is true then why are they not using this wonder-drug in hypogonadal sterile men?