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Cycle/PCT Confirmation


#1

This is the cycle that I have laid out for myself after lurking in the shadows for quite some time. It’s amazing what you can learn for these forums however just want to make sure I am getting things right… I am a Male 6’ 182lbs 11% BF. I have great conditioning, I am relatively strong for my size. The goals for this cycle would be to gain overall strength, recover quicker for double days and put on some lean mass. Conditioning is important to me, I don’t want crippling calf or back pumps when you go for a run but also want to hit some PR’s on some oly lifting. I won’t say the word.

My Questions are:

DBol - is 25mg to little of an amount to take at my current weight? And what would be the appropriate week finish? Or do i scrap it? I have seen a lot of people use it as a kickstarter. Don’t know if its just a trend and I’m following the heard.

The low dose of test c is mostly for recovery purposes. Will I still be able to get some gains out of that amount?

I have 15000iu of HCG. How can I add that into the mix?

Having prop in hand can I switch up at week 16-18 to Prop for 2 weeks to get more out of the cycle?

Arimidex 1mg EOD or .5 ED?

1-3? Dbol 25mg ED
1-16 Test Cyp 250-350 pw
1-16 EQ 600mg pw
1-16 Arimidex 1mg/EOD
18-22 Clomid
18-22 Nolva


#2

Probably start the cycle with the prop rather than ending with it, unless you’re thinking about a faster recovery/pct. Starting off with it will give you that immediate effect. Counterpoint: the dbol will kickstart things and you don’t need the prop. So there’s an argument for both I guess.

The dbol dose is fine. You read about guys taking 100mg/d and it kind of distorts reality. I say start at 25mg and see how your body reacts. Maybe that’s perfect for you and you don’t have to increase it. Maybe it’s not enough. You won’t know until you have tried, so always start lower. Run it for at least four weeks, but up to six if you’d like.

The EQ looks good. 16 weeks seems to be a consensus minimum to see the real benefits of it, so you’re right on track.

I normally would say that the adex dosage is a little high, but you are running three aromatising compounds, so maybe 1mg eod is right. When you drop the dbol you can reduce the adex, since you’ll have fewer aromatising drugs going into your system.

Take the HCG 250iu twice a week.

Probably don’t need both Clomid and Nolva for pct. Seeing more and more guys say just take one instead of both. I can’t speak to that, but read both arguments and see which one convinces you.

Looks like a good cycle. Best of luck to you.


#3

Thanks for your quick reply IY. I am planning on starting this cycle beginning of March so I want to have the details ironed out. If I were to drop the Dbol and go prop to start, and add the HCG this is what it would look like?

1-3 Prop 250 pw
1-16 Test Cyp 250-300 pw
1-16 EQ 600 pw
1-16 Arimidex 1mg/eod (until I am on two compounds)
1-16 HCG 500iu/pw
18-22 Nolva

Is there anything you would change to this/add to this?


#4

I’ll start with dbol, 25 mgs a day at your weight will absolutely produce results. How much? That depends on you, your diet, workouts, eating, ect…
I consistently see 50mgs being thrown around, yet I seem to remember reading on what I felt was a quality site that 50mgs is most likely all anybody would ever need. As in a “max” dosage for the vast majority of users. (Short of professionals that is) Of course some genetics might require a little more to get similar results to the vast majority but very few of us, short of the 250lbs plus professionals REQUIRE more for it to “work” or "do anything."
Step to the side for a moment I want to rant. People tend to read the max dosage or the “this is what Arnold would use” and think that is what you are “supposed” to do. Not smart, and somewhere along the line of it getting parroted across the internet it turns into "the only dose worth starting with."
Also think, not all UGL brands are created equal. Now dbol is fairly cheap so I doubt it’s faked much but that 10 mg tablets is never actually exactly 10.
Again 25mgs a day will definitely do something. For what you are adding it in with and your stated goals it’s a good dosage level I think. If the wallet can handle it I would push it to four weeks.

You asked about what your test level might do. I know PLENTY of guys who’s first cycle was one bottle of test 250 enanthate or cypionate and they got 12-15 lbs of keepable mass from it. Now they were starting with less of a base than you (you body development) and they probably only started eating enough once on cycle but 12-15 lbs is respectable.
600 mgs a week of EQ will probably make you eat like a horse if your anything like the most of the guys I know who have used it. Be prepared to find ways to stuff quality food in you. Seriously I start eating and can’t stop.

What I did notice and I don’t know if this was intentional or just how it happened with what was available to you. All three of your choices are test based and aromatize. It almost looks like a quality wet mass run. If you have never run this much wet before (well over a gram a week) I hope you know that you do well on arimidex. I found I had to start using aromasin when I started pushing past a gram a week of wet compounds I hold a lot of water especially my legs. Even if you know you handle arimidex well, I would just source aromasin before you start. Just find out how hard it would be to get it to your door. The 1 mg eod should come down after dbol is dropped. Myself at those dosages (after dbol is dropped) I would try .5 mgs EOD then see if I am holding too much water and adjust.

For the prop bottle, I personally like switching to prop for the last three weeks that way I just stop wait a few days and PCT. But when I do that on my wet gaining runs I usually have some sort of cutter like winny with it. It just a way to push the water out and burn some fat along with a strength boost to finish strong. But winny is for the last six weeks three of which with prop. Since you are not doing anything like that then the only other reason would be just so you don’t have to have the lingering weeks of limbo. I don’t like those weeks myself. I honestly probably don’t get anything special out of switching to prop after say a tren and long chain test run but I just do it so I don’t have “dead” weeks. It’s really just a mental thing for me during those.

All that was response to your original post.

I agree with Iron. On HGC dosage to prevent total shutdown. I myself usually just use it for the month before PCT. There is some stuff out there saying you can desensitize to it. However how it is written I have reason to believe it was started from one source and they could have been saying anything that messes with LH or FSH or simulates it then the body CAN desensitize. I see the same stuff about clomid but not so much Nolvadex.

Also agree with his comments on the prop, really either way just depends on your history and goals.

If you have not already ordered or purchased there is one other test based gainer that’s known for quality dry gains; Turinabol. It’s the east German Olympic drug. I like it, read up. Really if you want three things I would think about a DHT. Some winny at the end of your cycle could push your strength, burn fat, and add a nice “polish” if run well. Also it is fairly cheap and available in oral or injections. If you are trying s new brand then stick with oral, the suspension process tends to lead to contaminated product.
All that said What you wrote as your revised plan really should get you where you want with your goals. Just so I am clear, with what you revision shows I could see you gaining 20lbs if you run it accordingly.


#5

@now_i_care Thanks for your awesome feedback. Very well laid out and informative. I have multiple questions to your response. I hope you’ll take the time to answer again.

Dbol is out. Tbol is in. Due to supply and demand issues.

I will consider the winny to be added and update the cycle log if I do.

  1. With this cycle below, will I have any libido issues? or will they be increased drastically as well?

  2. Is Arimidex better dosed ED or higher doses EOD? Should 1-4 be .5mg daily instead? and then dropped to .5mg EOD 4-16? is 1mg of ADEX still needed EOD after dropping DBol?

  3. What other supplements would benefit me during the cycle? ie. Liver/Kidney/Heart Protection that you can get from a local drug store.?

  4. Whats your recommendation on pinning, can I do them together?

Sorry if I am going through this with a fine tooth comb. I like to be meticulous.

Prop will be saved for a shorter run later in the year.

As always, Thanks eh.

Revision#3:

1-4 Tbol 50mg ED
1-16 Test Cyp 250mg pw
1-16 EQ 400 mg pw
1-4 Arimidex 1mg/eod (until I am on two compounds)
4-16 Arimidex .5mg eod
1-16 HCG 500iu/pw
18-22 Nolva


#6

Hey don’t apologise for making sure that you are covering the bases.

First, Turinabol or tbol does not aromatize so it does not have a correlating increase in estrogen when used. As you laid it out you only have two aromatizing compounds, the test and EQ. EQ aromatizes at a much lower level than test. I have read it aromatizes at 20% the rate of test. Now depending on how exactly you interpret that and how your body reacts then even .5 mgs EOD might be too high. As the most recent layout for your cycle goes I would start with .25 mgs EOD then increase accordingly. Remember your test release rate won’t be steady until 5 half life’s as long as you have a steady injection schedule. Cypionate half life is about 12 days. The EQ is going to be attached to the undeconate ester with a half life of 14-16 days. So again I would start at .25 mgs EOD of arimidex and that probably will be all you need until week 5 or so. You need to watch for water retention and blood pressure spikes. I hold water in my legs so if I can see the fabric impression from my socks imprinted in my lower calf then I know I need to increase AI (arimidex in your case). Also the decline bench you use for what some call “boxer situps” if you make it steep as possible and then get on it and lay down and you can feel the pressure in your head go up then you might have high blood pressure from extra water weight due to estrogen.

Some side info on arimidex, and I repeat so often please forgive me if I already said it here. Arimidex half life is 3 days so if you are having issues and having to increase your dosage once you reach 0.5 EOD I find for myself I get better results adding in .25 mgs on the other days I don’t take 0.5 mgs. But I only do that if 0.5 EOD is not enough. Some people respond better to EOD higher dose some better to ED lower dose. It depends on you and your body.

You asked about additional support supplements. With tbol it is a lower toxic oral versus stuff like dbol or anadrol. So milk thistle might be enough for you depending on your background however since you are starting this journey then I suggest you read up on TUDCA as well.

For other supplements I like arginine, glutamine, and bcaa’s. Of course protein.

Yes you can mix both test cypionate and EQ in the same syringe. Both are out based. If it looks like they are not mixing together in the syringe don’t worry. They might be suspended in different oil and that’s ok too.

Pinning is anywhere you can do it properly. I use my glutes, thigh, shoulders, lats, ect…Since your new I would stick with glutes or thigh. My first cycle I did all in my thoughts since I could sit down relax and go slow. Look online for diagrams showing the property spot.

Some people report libido issues on EQ I have never had them. Mine went through the roof. If you do have issues there are a thousand different things people claim that work so read up.

You commented on possibly adding in winny, if you do since you are newer to this then pick either tbol or winny. Starting with an oral kicker and finishing with a oral booster just gets to be too much early on in cycle history. If I had to choose one I would choose to add an oral at the end to make myself push harder all the way to the end. But I know once I pin that I have it in my head to go full out in the gym so I don’t need a kick start to start pushing hard early. But that’s me. It really comes down to you and how you know you work out.


#7

I know the arimidex dosage has been changed just remember your earlier plan had 250-350 mgs of test and 600mgs of EQ. As you last laid out its 250 mgs of test and 400 mgs of EQ.


#8

Thanks again for the thorough response. Starting to understand how the compounds are working with each other an against each other.

We are quite similar in terms of hitting it hard in the gym, we have the mental capacity to not have to wait to be “on.” Day 1 for me is no different than Day 365. Those tips ie. sock depressions and boxer situps will be quite valuable. Greatly appreciated.

I will add the Tbol to the end of the cycle to “polish” as you would say. I can’t wait to see the results of hard work. I have some large shoes to fill and motivated not to disappoint.

So now that Dbol is out, TBol doesn’t aromatize, this is what the final cycle looks like.

1-16 Test CYP 250 pw
1-16 EQ 500 pw
12-16 TBOL 50mg ED
1-16 HCG 500iu pw
1-4 Arimidex .25mg EOD
4-16 Arimidex .5mg EOD (.25mg in between day if needed) ie.5.25.5.25
18-22 Nolva

Last question for a bit (hopefully)- all of my injectable compounds are 2x/pw. What is the best pinning schedule for this? Monday Am both CYP and ED, as well as HCG(insulin needle) and Thursday evening? Or is HCG better applied at different days then the test?

Reading up on possible libido issues, tudca, and pinning videos.

Thanks for all the answers, feeling much more confident.

Feel free to follow my log and keep tabs :smile: Stregnth/Oly/Conditioning.

Cheers.