T Nation

Cycle or Not to Cycle

Alright guys I’m new here, and I was hoping to get some opinions. I just ordered my first ph cycle. I got a dienazone+triumphalis stack along with cycle assist, DAA, Erase, and Anabeta. Clomid on hand as well. Haven’t started yet because I’ve been doing so much damn research and psyching myself out. I got blood work done a couple weeks ago and my test level is only 565.

Of course my primary care physician told me that was completely normal. Doesn’t seem normal to me for a 21 year old who lifts 5 days a week. Anyway, the reason I’m having second thoughts is because I do not want to mess that number up even worse. I’ve read so much about test levels and libido shutting down for good.

Thoughts?

Guys here will most likely tell u not to use PHs…I’ve researched PHs and thought about running one. But after getting advice here and researching more you shouldn’t be doing steroids unless you can pin…which I’m prolly going to wait a year or so to make some more natty gains before I do my first TEST cycle

I figured I’d get a lot of people telling me I’m too young. I know if I decide to do it, then I’m deciding to live with the consequences. But I was hoping to get some insight from maybe someone who has used these particular compounds, some advice on anything else i should run with this cycle if I do it, and maybe some input on my test level and how a cycle will affect it.

Your test level is in the normal range, and there is a VERY SMALL difference between being at the bottom or top of the normal range; just as long as you are in it.

Like the above said, don’t run a PH cycle. You have no true idea what you’re getting. If you aren’t willing to go for the real thing, you shouldn’t be messing with the fake thing. Especially with a whack over the counter PCT.

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Your test level is in the normal range, and there is a VERY SMALL difference between being at the bottom or top of the normal range; just as long as you are in it.

Like the above said, don’t run a PH cycle. You have no true idea what you’re getting. If you aren’t willing to go for the real thing, you shouldn’t be messing with the fake thing. Especially with a whack over the counter PCT.[/quote]

Well I understand your opinion, and I am fully willing to do the real thing, but I do not have a source, so I resorted to pro hormones. And I mentioned that I have clomid for my PCT. How is that whack?

And thanks for the insight on the test level. I had no idea. I just knew mine was definitely closer to the lower range.

Also, I have a varicocele. So that may be suppressing my testosterone levels a bit as well. I’m not really sure because my doctor told me it wouldn’t mess with my test level at all, but everything online says it does.

I know countless people who regret their PH cycles; even when done correctly, you have no idea what you’re actually taking. Labels are often incorrect, not allowing you to properly know what you’re getting into. The gains are also small compared to AAS.

Didn’t quite see the Clomid part; in any case, it should be the mainstay in your PCT, not last on the last. All the other stuff will do next to jack for you.

Just for your info, normal test ranges are 300-1000. The difference between the bottom of the range and the top are miniscule. The major changes come when you drop below or go above.

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Your test level is in the normal range, and there is a VERY SMALL difference between being at the bottom or top of the normal range; just as long as you are in it [/quote]

This is just simply not true. I don’t know what you’re basing your info off of but there is a huge difference from 300ng/dl to even 700ng/dl which isn’t even the top of the range. However, the OPs test level is not too bad and you could definitely do some things naturally to raise it a little more. Your vericosle could very well be supressing some natural test production. I would get that fixed, and Phs are not really worth it, youre doing more damage to your body and getting less in return.

I’ll probably get the varicocele fixed when the summer is over. Just don’t want to have to take a month long break from lifting. And I know AAS is definitely the better option, but I just have no way to get them. And there are many people out there who get great results running ph. The thing is I think I’ve pretty much already made up my mind on running the cycle. I’d appreciate any insight on any precautions I should take to reduce the shutdown though. After doing more research today, I decided to have aromasin on hand before I start as well as the clomid I already have. Any suggestions appreciated.

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
Your test level is in the normal range, and there is a VERY SMALL difference between being at the bottom or top of the normal range; just as long as you are in it [/quote]

This is just simply not true. I don’t know what you’re basing your info off of but there is a huge difference from 300ng/dl to even 700ng/dl which isn’t even the top of the range. However, the OPs test level is not too bad and you could definitely do some things naturally to raise it a little more. Your vericosle could very well be supressing some natural test production. I would get that fixed, and Phs are not really worth it, youre doing more damage to your body and getting less in return.[/quote]

If you want to link some clinical research backing your claim up, please do so. Because I can actually back mine up with peer reviewed evidence.

[quote]c_benson78 wrote:
I’ll probably get the varicocele fixed when the summer is over. Just don’t want to have to take a month long break from lifting. And I know AAS is definitely the better option, but I just have no way to get them. And there are many people out there who get great results running ph. The thing is I think I’ve pretty much already made up my mind on running the cycle. I’d appreciate any insight on any precautions I should take to reduce the shutdown though. After doing more research today, I decided to have aromasin on hand before I start as well as the clomid I already have. Any suggestions appreciated.[/quote]

Good call on having an AI on hand, although you might not need it. But honestly, I would just do a little bit of research and look for an AAS source. It isn’t as hard as you might think.

Are you serious? What the fuck do you think trt is for?!?! I have first hand experience, I don’t need some stupid Fucking research done that I found on the internet to believe it. If you don’t notice any difference by going from low 300s to high 7s at least, then you have another underlying issue. This will most definitely increase libido, sense of well being, more confidence, more muscle building, less fat storage, etc.

TRT is for those who are below normal ranges, I honestly thought this was well known but clearly not. Have you ever gone from 350-500 or 500-700 and seen the changes? How about even a big change like 400-900? Do you think you’ll have bigger and better muscle growth? It doesn’t work that way. Especially since testosterone is only one piece of the puzzle. Glad you’ve got your “facts” straight.

You can easily qualify for trt if you are in low ranges, I thought this was well known but I guess not obviously.

Yes I have gone from low 400s to 900s and definitely noticed a difference in body comp and well being

Let’s not forget what you said, that there is minor difference in being at the bottom range and being at the top. You seriously sound like a stupid ass GP doctor who doesn’t know shit. Only thinks he knows anything from reading his out dated bullshit literature. That’s you. Take your ass over to the trt forum and ask them how they feel when going from the bottom range to the top range. Oh and just fyi, the range is just a general scale, everyone feels different at different levels, its not like if the low cut off point is 250 and your test is 251 then you’re fine, wake the fuck up dude.

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
You can easily qualify for trt if you are in low ranges, I thought this was well known but I guess not obviously.

Yes I have gone from low 400s to 900s and definitely noticed a difference in body comp and well being

Let’s not forget what you said, that there is minor difference in being at the bottom range and being at the top. You seriously sound like a stupid ass GP doctor who doesn’t know shit. Only thinks he knows anything from reading his out dated bullshit literature. That’s you. Take your ass over to the trt forum and ask them how they feel when going from the bottom range to the top range. Oh and just fyi, the range is just a general scale, everyone feels different at different levels, its not like if the low cut off point is 250 and your test is 251 then you’re fine, wake the fuck up dude.[/quote]

That’s pretty much what I thought too. But I’d rather have some people on here who can give me some damn useful information rather than arguing over shit that I’m not really even asking about.

Now, yes I would love to get some AAS. No I do not have a reliable source, and no I do not know which websites to trust to order some. I know there are tons of counterfeits out there and do not want to get screwed over. So I’m gonna take some damn pro hormones! Can someone post something that doesn’t include a lecture about how I should just get AAS?

if you really must use a legal product, get yourself some methylstenbolone (M Sten). I used it recently and it’s fucking brilliant.

Works way better stacked with test though…

I was 20 years old when I did my first PH cycle. Ill never touch that shit again. My dick never worked the same after that and my libido was shot, even after a proper PCT. If you want to try hormones, save yourself the time and money and just do a 10 week cycle of test E. Its really not as bad or harmful as everyone makes it out to be. That is as long as you are smart about it and take all of the precautions, including HCG and proper PCT. I also had T levels very similar to yours, mid 500’s, so I know where you are coming from. I just finished up my first cycle of test e about 8 weeks ago, and being 21, I can honestly say I have recovered nicely, and have no regrets about cycling. Do you have any of your other numbers? Like LH, FSH, or estrogen?

Thanks for some good insight cougar. Can I ask what ph you ran when you were 20? And also, is your libido still messed up?

And no I do not have any other hormone numbers. At the time that I got blood work, I was really just concerned with test because of the varicocele issue. If I did get a full hormone profile done, how could that help me to make an informed decision about my next step?

Also, the ph stack that I mentioned I have (dienazone triumphalis) is getting rave reviews everywhere I look online. Can’t find any bad review on it. Probably won’t change you guys opinions, but just thought I’d throw that out there. The dienazone is a newer version of trenazone that was really popular a few years back. It’s a topical solution, so it bypasses the liver and all that. Triumphalis is supposed to be similar to epistane.

[quote]CxTucker wrote:
TRT is for those who are below normal ranges, I honestly thought this was well known but clearly not. Have you ever gone from 350-500 or 500-700 and seen the changes? How about even a big change like 400-900? Do you think you’ll have bigger and better muscle growth? It doesn’t work that way. Especially since testosterone is only one piece of the puzzle. Glad you’ve got your “facts” straight. [/quote]
I’m not sure what the difference between 350 and 700 would be, but from my own personal experience… I spent 3 years at about 300 and gained a whopping 5 pounds in that 3yr time frame. I have been on trt @ 210mg per week for the past 13 months and my levels are around 1000-1150. I have put on 11 pounds so far in the last 13 months. So for me personally, going from 300 to 1000 made a huge impact on strength gains and total muscle mass. I’m not sure if going from 300 to 700 would make a difference because everyone responds differently. Like I said…This was just my personal experience.

Thank you.

Don’t use PH I did and it’s not worth it. I ran a cycle it made me feel okay but my girl hated it cause my libido was none existent also gains were very minimal