T Nation

Cycle Opinions and Suggestions

This is my first cycle and just wanted some suggestions on whether it seems like a solid cycle…
wk 1-12 Test Enth 250mg E3D
wk 1-10 Deca 200mg E3d
wk 1-14 nolva 20mg/day if gyno shows at all

I will have plenty of nolva 20mg on hand for the whole cycle…

clomid therapy 15-17
wk 15 clomid 50mg x 2 a day
wk 16-17 clomid 50mg a day

(1) should i run adex .25mg EOD or ED on this cycle? like weeks 1-14…
(2) would there be much of difference between enth or cypionate?
(3) should i be taking nolva during clomid therapy or between when i get off test until i start clomid therapy?
(4) would it matter if i injected the test and deca twice a week or E3D?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions?

oh yeah, just some background…

i am 6’3" 235 at 11% bodyfat.
i have been lifting on and off for the last 5 years, but mostly on.

my goal of this cylce is to gain strength first and size second (but obviosly size is important).

[quote]vikingrob wrote:
This is my first cycle and just wanted some suggestions on whether it seems like a solid cycle…
wk 1-12 Test Enth 250mg E3D
wk 1-10 Deca 200mg E3d
wk 1-14 nolva 20mg/day if gyno shows at all

I will have plenty of nolva 20mg on hand for the whole cycle…

clomid therapy 15-17
wk 15 clomid 50mg x 2 a day
wk 16-17 clomid 50mg a day

(1) should i run adex .25mg EOD or ED on this cycle? like weeks 1-14…
(2) would there be much of difference between enth or cypionate?
(3) should i be taking nolva during clomid therapy or between when i get off test until i start clomid therapy?
(4) would it matter if i injected the test and deca twice a week or E3D?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions?

[/quote]

Seems ok. After a quick glance I’ve noticed a few things.

  1. Start the adex at .25mg EOD and up it from there according to how you feel or based on blood tests. If you are using an AI properly there should be no need for Nolvadex on cycle. Keeping the Nolva around is not a bad idea though, as a backup plan.

  2. Probably not.

  3. Nolvadex and Clomid do basically the same thing. There are slight differences but essentially they can be used interchangibly at the appropriate dosages.

  4. Probably not.

You may want to look into cabergoline. It may be something that you can choose to add to a cycle with nandrolone.

thanks for taking a look!

would you recommend a test taper over a typical pct?

keep in mind i have never taken ND but because of its long half life, I personally would use the test taper, as it would decrease the amount of active nandrolone by the time you are off the exo test. (which should make HPTA recovery easier)

Taper seems to be the way to go with the 19-nors.

well i think if he did a 19-nor at the beginning of his cycle with a short ester; either acetate or NPP he could get away with a traditional PCT,. But with a 2week ester, IMO it would def not be wise…

so a test taper it is! thanks for the help guys…seriously!!

another question…

would you use nolvadex or clomid as the pct during the taper?

also you taper off the AI in the stasis, correct?

Tell me - If PCT is an acronym for Post Cycle Therapy, which it is - how can it possibly be used during a taper?

Have you read the sticky?

Use a SERM during the taper - i’d also use one during the ‘stasis’ part too but thats just me it seems.

Then continue with its (the SERM) use for a couple weeks after…

For what its worth - i happen to know a very knowledgeable and handsome young man who hasnt trained for 2 weeks after starting a new test e and deca cycle and has grown/maintained his muscle very well indeed.

Brook

Why did this knowledgeable and handsome young man NOT train for 2 weeks after starting a test e and deca cycle?

[quote] Brook wrote:
Tell me - If PCT is an acronym for Post Cycle Therapy, which it is - how can it possibly be used during a taper?

Have you read the sticky?

Use a SERM during the taper - i’d also use one during the ‘stasis’ part too but thats just me it seems.

Then continue with its (the SERM) use for a couple weeks after…

For what its worth - i happen to know a very knowledgeable and handsome young man who hasnt trained for 2 weeks after starting a new test e and deca cycle and has grown/maintained his muscle very well indeed.

Brook[/quote]

i have read all the stickies multiple time. i am used to nolva and clomid being used in conjunction with pct, that i said it with out thinking…thanks for the correction.

thanks for the help!

(1) ED no doubt, just divide into whatever dose you want i.e. .5mg EOD SHOULD be .25mg ED instead.

(2) Not really, though I prefer Enanthate because experiences have lead me to think it offers more sex drive benefit at HRT doses, your dose wouldn’t matter, as it probably doesn’t anyway.

(3) Neither. You could take it as well if you wanted to I guess as a estrogen control substance. You should however, run the Arimidex up to PCT, which should be at least 2 weeks past your cycle, and more than likely 3 weeks.

(4) It would: e3D is a pain in my opinion as you are off of a weekly schedule. Just makes sense to me to dose twice a week and know that its on Mon and Thu or whatever you decide - if you are one of those that thinks it matters that much to be even, I’m not in this case, then take it Mon Morning and Thu Night therefore 3.5 days between shots.

Other Notes:
Don’t take Novladex during the cycle because of the possibility of Novladex making Progesterone receptors more sensitive, even though PR-induced Gyno is more than likely a myth or at least very rare, it still doesn’t make sense to push the chance. You should simply control Estrogen and Progesterone through controlling Estrogen! Run your AI from the beginning and don’t be a fool or follow a fool that recommends waiting to “maximize” water…I mean gains, that’s what they say right? Silly. Control estrogen and don’t try to wipe it out - simple as that. Take a reasonable dose and maintain.

Letro is a good choice for Deca cycles, but take around 5 days for levels to peak, in other words if you run into problems, it won’t offer a quick fix and more than likely you (others do) would take a crazy high dose to get a quicker response and then think it was the dose that fixed it, when a much smaller dose would have worked anyway just a little longer - there’s such a rebound.

Aromasin will be you fastest working AI, and Arimidex your easiest to control, and Letro your strongest. My recommendation would be Letro at 1/4 tab EOD or 1/8 liquid dose ED. Aromasin also offers an androgenic component and I personally THINK it increases acne, but otherwise is my favorite and would be nice at 12.5mg ED and half of that for the first 2 weeks.

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Why did this knowledgeable and handsome young man NOT train for 2 weeks after starting a test e and deca cycle?[/quote]

lol! life gets in the way sometimes. I assume…

Gotcha!!

[quote]TheBeat2 wrote:
(1) ED no doubt, just divide into whatever dose you want i.e. .5mg EOD SHOULD be .25mg ED instead.

(2) Not really, though I prefer Enanthate because experiences have lead me to think it offers more sex drive benefit at HRT doses, your dose wouldn’t matter, as it probably doesn’t anyway.

(3) Neither. You could take it as well if you wanted to I guess as a estrogen control substance. You should however, run the Arimidex up to PCT, which should be at least 2 weeks past your cycle, and more than likely 3 weeks.

(4) It would: e3D is a pain in my opinion as you are off of a weekly schedule. Just makes sense to me to dose twice a week and know that its on Mon and Thu or whatever you decide - if you are one of those that thinks it matters that much to be even, I’m not in this case, then take it Mon Morning and Thu Night therefore 3.5 days between shots.

Other Notes:
Don’t take Novladex during the cycle because of the possibility of Novladex making Progesterone receptors more sensitive, even though PR-induced Gyno is more than likely a myth or at least very rare, it still doesn’t make sense to push the chance. You should simply control Estrogen and Progesterone through controlling Estrogen! Run your AI from the beginning and don’t be a fool or follow a fool that recommends waiting to “maximize” water…I mean gains, that’s what they say right? Silly. Control estrogen and don’t try to wipe it out - simple as that. Take a reasonable dose and maintain.

Letro is a good choice for Deca cycles, but take around 5 days for levels to peak, in other words if you run into problems, it won’t offer a quick fix and more than likely you (others do) would take a crazy high dose to get a quicker response and then think it was the dose that fixed it, when a much smaller dose would have worked anyway just a little longer - there’s such a rebound.

Aromasin will be you fastest working AI, and Arimidex your easiest to control, and Letro your strongest. My recommendation would be Letro at 1/4 tab EOD or 1/8 liquid dose ED. Aromasin also offers an androgenic component and I personally THINK it increases acne, but otherwise is my favorite and would be nice at 12.5mg ED and half of that for the first 2 weeks.[/quote]

thanks for the advice!