Cycle Opinion - Test E, Tren A, Mast P (Maybe?), HCG Controversy

Hey T Nation Members!

I am new to the forums - nice to meet you all!

I am hoping to get some feedback from the community and learn something :). Nothing will be taken personally, and everything will be taken with a grain of salt because there seem to be many different views of the experts that all seem to work, yet contradict other experts.

I have run cycle of Test E 500mg/wk (split M/Th) with a PCT of Nolva (40,20,20,20) and adex at 2-3mg/week depending on symptoms. HCG 500IU EOD used to bridge last gear pin to Nolva PCT (as described below)

Diet is on point (Coach has me dialed in, been working with them for ~1year, huge improvements)

Workouts on point - 5 workouts/wk (~45min-75min/workout) and cardio daily (40 minutes stairclimber)

I am proposing the following 14 week cycle:

Test E (250mg/wk, split MTh) → 1-14
Tren A (350mg/wk average**, split EOD) → 3-14
Mast P (350mg/wk average**, split EOD) → 8-14
Anavar (25mg/day, split AM/PM) → 1-6
HCG (500iu/wk, split MTh) → 4-13

I will have on hand plentiful:

Arimidex - maintenance
Caber - just in case (first question the wife asked: “if you start lactating, can I suck your nipples?”… uhhhhhhh, she has a nipple twisting, pinching, biting thing, so I am still surprised I was thrown off lol. Anyways…


HCG (500iu EOD, first dose overlapping with last week of gear, continuing for 3 weeks, last pin day before start of Nolva)
Nolva (40,20,20,20,20 ED, starting 2 weeks after last pin of gear, one day after last HCG dose)

**due to EOD pinning, some weeks will have 4 pins, alternating weeks will have 3 pins)

1.) The reason I am planning to run HCG throughout cycle is to help mitigate suppression. Though I am starting to think this is unnecessary because the tren will keep me pretty suppressed and the HCG could be better used bringing me back up at a higher dose. Some people claim HCG is useless all together, so not sure what to think. Let me know what you think :slightly_smiling_face:

2.) Also, I am not sub 12%bf, so I am thinking about dropping the Mast P and save my money for some more fun gear that will be more noticeable. Drop it?

3.) Should I pin ED for the Tren A? I have read that ED pinning will reduce the bad sides. I would like to hear your experience. Slin pins would be nice and allow me to alternate a bit more efficiently.

4.) Anavar dosage too low? Kickstart. I have enough to increase if needed.


  1. I use HCG during my trt, but I don’t think it’s necessary on cycle as you have laid out. I’d save it for after your cycle ends but before you start pct.
  2. Tren and mast together is a favorite among guys who like tren. I have no experience with tren, so I’ll defer to others.
  3. ED seems to be more and more popular. Again, I’ll defer.
  4. Use more var. It’s amazing at 50mg/d.
1 Like

How I would do it :
Drop the hcg. Run the mast p along side the tren, save the anavar for the last 6 weeks anavar is by no means a “kick start” drug. The whole kick start theory is played out IMO if you really want a kick start run the tren from the beginning alongside some test prop.

And yes pin the tren A daily. The mast p only really needs to be pinned 3x a week but if your pinning daily anyways might as well pin them both

Also might as well run some P5P starting a week before cycle it will help you not have to use the caber. Altho everyone is different some guys run 500mg tren a week with no need for anything others need caber with 200mg

1 Like

Really? What does it do for you on trt?

1 Like

I was about to comment until I read @zeek1414’s post. I would run the tren and test e right out of the gate too as he said. However, I’d only run the tren for 8 weeks and then finish up with the Var at 50mg daily. Idk if you’ll need the Mast. What you’re running will already keep you pretty dry without the Mast, but then again, I’m no expert. I like keeping things simple.

1 Like

I can’t speak for @iron_yuppie but most of us that do hCG on trt do it for testicular pain or are trying to maintain fertility. I’m long past having kids (youngest is in college) but I find that on trt my testicles don’t shrink as much as they try to crawl up inside my body and ache… hCG alleviates that for me. Additionally, some people worry about shrinkage and do the hCG to mitigate or reverse that.


There is a couple reasons I like the mast in a low test high tren cycle.

The first being the mast will act as a mild AI thus most likely eliminating any need for arimidex with that dose of testosterone.

Second is it will lower shbg allowing for the majority of the low test dose to be converted the free testosterone.

Third is I love the effects of a dht derivative in any cycle it has great synergistic affects. It doesn’t have to be mast you could use proviron which is more or less oral masteron and achieve the same effect.

If you run the tren from the beginning I would def suggest using test prop for a few weeks with the test E. Tren ace will shut you down hard and fast waiting for test E to increase levels might give you some low test side effects for a couple weeks. If you dont run prop I would wait til the third week mark like you have planned before adding the tren.

1 Like

I use it to maintain some semblance of normalcy with regard to my testicular function. Without HCG semen becomes, um, different in its consistency and it’s kind of off-putting. Hcg keeps that in check. It also keeps me from getting atrophy and the pain that comes with it. So general maintenance I guess is my answer.


You guys are all awesome! Thanks for the detailed responses! :slight_smile:

I hope you don’t mind, but I have some followup questions:

1.) Sounds like HCG helps maintain some level of endogenous test production, but is not necessary because PCT will regain endogenous test production? For those that prefer to NOT use HCG, is this your experience (PCT gets you up and running sufficiently)? My thinking is I will still order it and keep on hand. Not going to lie, bridging cycle to pct with HCG while esters clear seemed to get the boys going. Smooth transition.

2.) As far as drying effects, mast will likely have a negligible effect for me due to current bf%. Mast’s AI quality and release of free test seems like a more appealing reason to take it for now. I think I will swap mast p for mast E and run throughout the cycle :). Any major differences between the esters (besides time to build up in blood)? Also, will 400mg/wk be a good dose if mast E?

Again, you guys are great!

Hey all, sorry to spam you guys. Unintentional bump. I want to pass by my updated cycle:

Test P (50mg ED, 350mg/wk average) → 1-3
Test E (250mg/wk, split MTh) → 1-14
Tren A (50mg ED, 350mg/wk average) → 1-8 (enough to extend 3 weeks if I can tolerate)
Mast P (50mg ED, 350mg/wk average) → 3-14
Anavar (50mg/day, split AM/PM) → 8-14
Clen - on hand if I want to feel cracked out

I will have on hand plentiful:

Arimidex - on hand if sensitive/mast p doesn’t cover the bases, first few weeks before mast p
Caber - on hand


HCG - on hand to bridge cycle/pct (to be decided upon further research)
Nolva (40,20,20,20,20 ED)

Unrelated to actual gear, do you guys use slin pins for smaller volumes? Looks like most days will be pinning 1ml (I am thinking slin pin for these daily pins), and on days pinning Test E I will throw other compounds in the barrel making total volume 1.5ml and will use a 3ml 25g.

Thanks for your expertise!

It is highly unlikely if not impossible that hCG will maintain any testicular function in the presence of something like Tren. It may however keep your testes fuller, which is not a measure of function though.

Personally, 250mg/wk of test would be too high. I would go for around 150mg or 200mg if I could tolerate it, and would not use Test E with Tren A, Test prop all the way so I can adjust doses if needed quickly. If you’re pinning Tren A everyday, may aswell pin the Prop too.


1 Like

You don’t need That much prop at the beginning just something to run along side the tren. Also start the mast with the tren

I second this. I used mast E but I used test P for my cycle and enjoyed it.

I used 20mg of test prop/day so 210/mg week alongside tren ace and mast E and had great results.

@iron_yuppie Mind me asking what you’re dosing at and the frequency to maintain some normalcy?

500iu twice a week. Doc wanted me to go to 1,000 twice a week but I declined. At some point I’m sure I’ll have to either take a break or increase the dose, but I’m not there yet.

Thank you much.