T Nation

Cycle of Tren & Winstrol?


#1

Hi All,
This is my first post on here and I am hoping to get some useful feedback.

Around 4 monthes ago I started my first cycle of gear. I did 50mg of d - bol for 6 weeks then 3 weeks of 50mg winstrol.Then 3 weeks of Nolva at 20mg per day. I realise I was very neive and didnt do enough research before jumping into something so serious. My cycle was too long as I was only using tabs!! (lucky my liver is still alive and kicking! ), and d - bol and winstrol is not ideal cycle. I have supplemented on Milk Thilste since and feel I may be ready for another cycle.

I basically do not want to look huge. I currently am 170lbs at 13% body fat. My goals are to lose around 4 - 5% of my body fat and gain some quality muscle (pretty much like everyone). Based on my goals I have reserched and read very good feedback on Tren. I would like to do a cycle stacking Tren and Winstrol. Could you please give advice as to dosages, PCT, and everyones opinion on such a cycle


#2

How old are you? how long have you been training for?


#3

Also, how tall are you?


#4


I am 21, 5ft 8, and Ive been training for 3 years. Sorry I should have included that info - there is not much to my profile as you mite have gathered already. I have attached a pic to show what I currently look like


#5

I am currently on week 6 of an 8 week cycle of Tren Acetate 75 mg/Winny 50mg, both ED because I weigh 300 lbs. EOD is fine IMO. I have been pretty impressed with the reselts thus far. I've put on about 10 lbs of lean mass and have lost quite a bit of fat in the process. As for the PCT, I will use Clomid only.

Day 1 200 mg
Day 2-7 100 mg
Day 8-14 50 mg


#6

First off, you're going to want to include testosterone with that Tren, unless you're perfectly okay with sexual dysfunction. Second, keep in mind that you should, at the very LEAST, be injecting 300mg of Tren or more (with a heavy emphasis on "or more") to get the results you want and consequently make that cycle worthwhile. 50mg ED of Winstrol is a good dose, so that's fine.

Now, on that note..

rushman: That is a poor cycle you're running. No testosterone, an incredibly weak dose of Tren (and no, EOD is not fine) and why in god's name are you going to use Clomid as a PCT? Are you not aware that neither of those compounds aromatise? You need to do some more research yourself before you give advice.


#7

Contrl,

Thanks for your advice, can you provide your opinion on running such a cycle in terms of jab frequencys, dosages, and combinations; tren, test,winstrol ???, and PCT also. Bear in mind I am a steriod novice, so I may not need extreme dosages to see results. Thanks


#8

I've done a somewhat-similar cycle before which consisted of about 600mg of Tren Enth per week (split into 2 injections of 300mg; one on Monday, one on Thursday) along with 800mg of Test Enth per week on the same days. Winstrol was 50mg ED. I don't want to say you should try a similar cycle because, even though I got great results, in retrospect I could have done better with more research.

I don't have much fear of needles, and have more time on my hands, so now I use shorter esters and find that the results are much nicer.

Not saying you should use the above cycle as a guide or anything, just think of it as something to compare or contrast. Mine was 9 weeks long and expensive.


#9

PCT?


#10

Depends on the length. If you're going to keep it relatively short (less than about 8 or 9 weeks) then all you'd really need is a good supply of Nolvadex. If you're going to go for a longer cycle, then I'd personally invest in some HCG.

I don't want to give you any wrong info on the dosage/length of each of these, so you're probably better off searching this site for Nolva and/or HCG PCTs.

Mine wasn't long enough to merit HCG, so I stuck with 20mg of Nolvadex ED for about 20 days.


#11

Contrl: You say the cycle I'm running is poor, yet I have added 10 Lbs of lean mass and lost about 4% body fat in 6 weeks. I do not wish to add anymore weight to my 300 lb frame. So it's clear the test isn't necessary for me. Also, I have never had an issue with sexual dysfunction on Tren. I do hear people on this site mention it, but it's not an issue for me. Obviously, everybody is different.

I'm not really sure why you would say 525mg of Tren a week (my current dose) is a weak dose? Maybe it is for you because you have poor genetics and you need more gear for your small 190 Lb frame to accomplish your goals? My last cycle of Tren was 75mg EOD and the results weren't that far off from this cycle, so EOD does work for some people.

No shit Tren doesn't aromatize, but it sure as hell will suppress natural test production very quickly, so Clomid has always worked well for me avoiding this problem. The bottom line is I told this kid what works for me. Obviously, some people need more and some need less. I guess I'm fortunate that I need less to get the results that make me happy.


#12

I disagreed on the use of Clomid also on the basis that it's a very poor method of increasing LH and FSH, I think you'd agree that a stronger SERM would be much more adequate (namely Nolvadex, although I personally like Toremifene).

Also, it seemed you were suggesting the 75mg EOD path of Tren, which most people would agree is a sub-optimal dosage, "poor genetics" or not. I hardly think excess body fat counts for much here. Furthermore, I'm inclined to believe that, when somebody is relatively new to any AAS usage, those said first cycles should be done efficiently and without slack while also playing the safe side and avoiding psychologically depressing side-effects whenever possible (such as sexual dysfunction).


#13

I understand the role test would play in this cycle, however, I do not really want to bloat up, and want to avoid water retention. Would you suggest using a low dosage of test??


#14

I personally have used tren and winny successfully. ive also heard of many who would never run tren without test. its apparently obvious from the debate above that compounds effect people in different ways. it is a very individual thing.

imo, low to moderate dose tren and winnny taken ED will give you the quality gains with no water retention. no need to use very high dosage. see how your body responds and make adjustments accordingly. good luck with whatever you decide.

Dezz


#15

My point exactly. Well put Dezz.


#16

If you don't want to use test with or without an AR inhibitor you might look ino finding some Proviron. Some clainm it helps maintain libido on cycle plus its an AI and also displaces testosterone from SHBG.


#17

Would a cycle of tren and winstrol, and supplementing on Tribulus be any use for promoting natural testostrone levels?


#18

Bump any advice on this one anyone????


#19

I respectfully disagree with your points.

75mg ED of Tren is a very fine dose in my opinion. Gains are not linear with Tren in the sense that more is better...

It is a dogmatism to think you need to run everything with Test. In most cases it is great benefit, but not a neccessity. Some people get quite the opposite sexual sides with Tren standalone believe it or not. It is a very individualized thing.

ED is optimal with Acetate, yes, but you can get away with EOD.. you just might have a higher occurance of the usual sides with the fluctuations. I had more night sweats with EOD, but ED had become a pain for so long.

The fact that neither compounds aromatize is a moot point in regards to SERM use in PCT. The serm will expedite HPTA recovery regardless, as you will be suppressed with or without the presence of estrogen. Tren is extremely suppressive so you will do yourself a great service by including a SERM like nolva/clomid (better yet Toremefine) in PCT.

Although your point about research is a good one, you must always consider the source. There can be a great deal of misinformation parroted on forums. I base my opinions on my personal experience, and you are all welcome to have yours. Just don't state something as fact without trying it.


#20

It did not seem that was the reason you disagreed on the use of Clomid, otherwise why would you mention the fact that neither compound aromatizes?

Clomid is very good for HPTA recovery, but it just has some emotional sides. Some actually consider it more suitable for HPTA recovery than Nolva, but not as good as Nolva in regards to ER antagonism in the breast tissue.