T Nation

Cycle Issues, Suggestions?


#1

Hey all. I wanted to get some opinions, recommendations from those here so here it goes. I just started what will be my first correctly laid out cycle. I have done 2 before while in the military but was completely uneducated about it and only took sustanon 250 for 6 weeks and at another time took deca for only 3.

I had gains from both cycles but never took any PCT or anything else. I had no idea it even existed at that time. Fast forward....I have decided to try it again. I'm 37, 5'9", 195 lbs and about 12% BF. My cycle is laid out as follows.

EQ for 16 pins every 6 days starting at 200 the first week, 300 the next and then 400 until the end (week 14).

Test-E starting on the 4th week at 300 then 400 divided into 200 twice per week until week 14

Adex 0.5mg starting on the second day and eod until PCT starts

hCG starting around week 4 at 250iu 2x per week

Nova starting 14 days after last Test pin for a month at 40/40/20/20/10

So here's my issue. I took my first dose of EQ on sunday and then my first adex on monday morning. Monday afternoon I began having some nausea. That lasted the rest of the day. The next day after I ate breakfast I pretty much had nausea all day and my girl and I actually got into an argument that night.

The next day we were talking about it and started looking up the adex and come to find out my symptoms are very common for people on prescription adex, including mood changes which I had the night we got into the argument. This takes us to yesterday, Wednesday, when I was still having the upset stomach and nausea and then ended up puking up my breakfast. I hadn't eaten much since Monday as everytime I would eat I would get nauseous.

Last night, after puking, I was laying in bed and had a pretty severe hot flash to the point that I'm pretty sure I had a syncopal episode that lasted less than 5 seconds. The rest of the night was fine and I slept better last night than I had the previous 2. This morning I feel almost back to normal. In the research that I did I found that I probably overdosed on the adex....especially with the EQ not being a substance that aromatizes all that much. I think I just crashed my estrogen too much which caused the above described symptoms and scenario.

I'm able to cut the adex tabs into 1/8ths which would make them 0.125mg each. After what happened the last couple of days I'm scared to even get back on the program. I understand that being on cycle cholesterol numbers go up, which is obviously concerning being that mine are a little high to begin with. I also understand that they will go back down once the cycle is complete.

The part that scares me is the unknown long term affects of men taking adex, a medication made for women with breast cancer, in addition to the short term ones such as elevated BP. I was a paramedic for 6 years and am now a RN so I do have a good deal of medical background. Thoughts.......???????


#2

Why are you taking EQ 4 weeks before test and why every 6 days?

Cycle would look better like this:

Wk 1-14 test e 500mg pinned 2x a week can be e3d or monday thursday
Wk 1-12 EQ 500-600mg pinned 2x a week can be e3d or monday thursday
Wk 1-16 Adex 0.5mg eod and adjust accordingly (you want to continue running adex even after you stop your test injection up to PCT to make sure you do not get e2 rebound. Some people even run small doses into PCT and end up tapering it off).
HCG either run it throughout your cycle at 250iu 2x week, or blast it 10 days before PCT at 500iu a day (there are other blasts, some say 3 weeks before etc etc but the one that I have read a lot up on is 10 days before PCT).
Wk 16-21 Nolva 40 40 20 20 20 20


#3

form what I have read, EQ takes 5-6 weeks to take effect so I figured that starting the test at that point I would being seeing results from both. I guess I should clarify on what I’m actually asking about in my post. I’m not as concerned with opinions on how I have set up my cycle, no offense or disrespect, as I am about what happened after taking my first dose of adex. From what I have read in the last day I understand that EQ aromatizes at about 50% of what Test does so I probably just overdosed on the adex and crashed my estrogen.


#4

EQ should be stopped 2 weeks before test, so run what you’re running but extend test 2 weeks more. Then PCT 2 weeks after last test injection as you stated.

Still think you are taking too little EQ and it’s spaced too far apart. Most important thing is to keep your blood levels as stable as possible.

On the adex, could be, might just be your bodies reaction to an exogenous hormone. Keep an eye and see what happens. As you stated I would go down to lower dose of adex eod and see how you feel.


#5

Test E takes 4-6 weeks to kick in.

Eq can take up to week 8 because of the decanoate ester. It may take longer since you thought it would be a good idea to ramp up the dosage weekly.

The usual recommended starting does for adex is 0.25mg EOD.

This is possible. It is also why you start the test at the same time. You are lucky you didn’t start a more suppressive compound without test.

No offence, but maybe you should listen to experienced people when they tell you how to do things the right way.


#6

ok thanks for the advice. The reason for the timing of the EQ and Test is what I have on hand. I have two vials of EQ which is 6000mg and 2 of Test being 5000mg total. I wanted to use as much of it as possible without having any left over.


#7

I’m all for listening to people with experience and am in no way disregarding what anyone has to say. I appreciate the advice and sounds like I need to restructure. I have run my current schedule by a couple of people who have cycled several times. Everyone always has an opinion so it’s hard to know which way to go when dealing with this shit.


#8

If you cannot procure more test, I would suggest that you drop the eq and save it for a later cycle. Just do 500mg test every week for 10 weeks for this one. You’ll feel great even on a test only cycle.


#9

ya you’re probaly right Dt, thanks for the advice. I’m sure I will feel good and get good results with just the Test being that I haven’t taken anything in 18 years.


#10

I do have another question though, when dosing adex, considering the reaction I already had to it I would like to start it at .125mg eod and go from there. How do know, based on how you feel, whether or not to increase the dose? Anything besides the normal gyno symptoms…sore nipples ect ect?


#11

[quote]noodlehead78 wrote:
I’m all for listening to people with experience and am in no way disregarding what anyone has to say. I appreciate the advice and sounds like I need to restructure. I have run my current schedule by a couple of people who have cycled several times. Everyone always has an opinion so it’s hard to know which way to go when dealing with this shit. [/quote]

Yeah I gotcha.

Just understand these compounds actually take effect immediately but require weeks to build up to a level where you can see distinct physique and strength changes. This is dependant on the length of the ester.

If you get confused by too many opinions, just remember the basic principles and you’ll be on the right track.


#12

[quote]noodlehead78 wrote:
I do have another question though, when dosing adex, considering the reaction I already had to it I would like to start it at .125mg eod and go from there. How do know, based on how you feel, whether or not to increase the dose? Anything besides the normal gyno symptoms…sore nipples ect ect?[/quote]

I’m not sure about this one. I’ve never had gyno so I don’t know what it feels like lol.

But there’s a difference between sore and SENSITIVE nipples. Your nipples will always be more sensitive on cycle so do not get paranoid.


#13

I probably sound like a retarded newb. I thought I had done enough research. Fuck me.


#14

Lol just read the stickies. Everything’s there. Then educate future noobs.


#15

I think an effective way to see if adex dosage is too high apart from how you feel is to get blood work. This is if you have the money and time. Also on gyno try not to think about it too much, your brain can actually trick you into thinking you have it. I just always look in mirror and check for lumps under my nipple. Like I was told multiple times… you WILL know if you have gyno lol.

Also I second dts opinion on just running test-e. Also if too many opinions cloud your thought just remember…test is king :P.


#16

[quote]noodlehead78 wrote:
I do have another question though, when dosing adex, considering the reaction I already had to it I would like to start it at .125mg eod and go from there. How do know, based on how you feel, whether or not to increase the dose? Anything besides the normal gyno symptoms…sore nipples ect ect?[/quote]

You will know when you are taking too much adex. I am an overresponder and starting out at .25mg EOD destroyed me. I felt terrible, was super greasy, I smelled weird, etc. You can look up high and low estrogen symptoms even though they are kinda the same it seems.

My first cycle was a small dose of Test-E for 12 weeks and I had no high estrogen issues I could feel. Second cycle was a moderate dose and my nipples got very sensitive so I started taking adex. It took me about 5-6 weeks on my second cycle to figure out dosing because it takes a few days at least between changes to know where you are at. I now use 0.02mg (yes that is correct, it is the first tiny tick on the oral syringe) EOD and feel great.

Or bloodwork.


#17

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

My first cycle was a small dose of Test-E for 12 weeks and I had no high estrogen issues I could feel. [/quote]

what is a small dose to you KountKoma? What sort of high estrogen issues would you expect to feel? I have 1mg adex tabs and am able to cut them down to .125mg will my pill cutter and MIGHT be able to get them smaller with just a razorblade. I’m pretty sure it was just too much for the amount of EQ I took but definitely don’t want to fuck around and feel like that again. It was fucking horrible.


#18

[quote]noodlehead78 wrote:

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

My first cycle was a small dose of Test-E for 12 weeks and I had no high estrogen issues I could feel. [/quote]

what is a small dose to you KountKoma? What sort of high estrogen issues would you expect to feel? I have 1mg adex tabs and am able to cut them down to .125mg will my pill cutter and MIGHT be able to get them smaller with just a razorblade. I’m pretty sure it was just too much for the amount of EQ I took but definitely don’t want to fuck around and feel like that again. It was fucking horrible. [/quote]

375mg/wk