Hello I am 24 years old and planning my second cycle
I am currently 12 % body fat(at least I think)
I am 198 lbs at 6ft tall
I have already done a 300ng test e cycle and I loved it for bulking so I’m doing a cycle for my show
My cycle will go as follows
Week 1 900 mg(front loading)
Weeks 2-11 450mg test e
Weeks 5-11 50mg winstrol ed
Weeks 1-11 adex .25mg eod
Weeks 7-11 1000 iu hcg(3 injection days)
Weeks 13-17 nolva 40/40/20/20
And I’m thinking of adding in Clovis but idk yet. Please lmk what y’all think
Not to nit pick but you didn’t really say what you wanted out of this cycle.
To me it looks like a gain a little in the beginning then switch over to try and burn the fat you gained with the muscle early on. There is nothing wrong with this approach and I see similar mentality in the “pro” cycles I see online. The issue is typically those gain then cut cycles are a lot longer like 20 weeks long. You will also see them switching to short ester test about Midway.
If you understand that with test e you are going to retain more water than prop and you are okay with it then go for it. If you are really wanting to capitalize on a well defined cut at the end then I would switch to test prop for the whole cycle. I don’t know when your show is so I can’t really judge if you will have enough time to get the water off of you before you get on stage.
If you can only get test e and you have enough time to get the water off then go for it. I don’t know the time frame for most users seeing the water retention from test e go away. Maybe someone else will chime in.
Regardless of the kind of winny you are using; injection or oral you can run it right up to a few days before PCT. That might help get the water from test e off of you. That is if you stop using test e week 11 but continue using winny until a few days before PCT.
I assume the “Clovis” you might add in was just autocorrected “clomid.” If you recovered from your first cycle with just Nolvadex then there is no reason to think you might need Clomid.
I said I’m cutting for a show. I just heard you can get rid of water with the right diet and I can only get test e rn not test sust or prop
Go back and read. You could make an argument that cutting was implied because of your show coming up and you have winstrol in this cycle but it was never stated. Also your test dosage is higher than your original gaining run, mixed signals right there.
As far as test e versus test prop goes. There is no actual reason why prop seems to make you hold less water it just seems to, like just about everyone holds less water on prop. Again no actual difference in how test e test c test prop or sust works because once the ester is off it is all just test. You are using test e so that effects timing differently.
Diet can effect how much water you retain a little bit but really diet determines if you gain or cut. Burning fat has nothing to do with water retention. So yes test e and a good diet will result in weight loss where more of the weight lost is fatt rather than muscle versus diet without AAS but while you have that test e in your system your definition will be less due to water retention. 30 days after your last shot of test e you still have about an eighth of the shot left in you and that does not count the prior shots.
Now you have winny in the mix and your ultimate goal is preserve as much muscle as possible while dropping fat. You want to do this and time it where you walk on stage as dry as possible so as much definition as you have is showing it’s best, that takes timing regardless of which test ester. I would adjust your time on the winny to where you start it later and run it right up to a few days before PCT. The winstrol will help get the water off of you. The current test dosage is going to make you retain water regardless of how well your arimidex dosage is dialed in. You might think about dropping the test dosage to a TRT level when you start the winstrol.
When is your show? I know with myself that it’s about four weeks after I stop test e that I see the water retention finally go down, others are different. I have never ran test e at TRT levels but I would think it would have minimal water retention.
I promise I am not trying to be a dick. You just have multiple timings that need to line up.
So I should move my test e down to aboit 200mg per week at about 4 weeks out?
What about Tren? Its a monster and has sides we all know about but i hardened a up lot and was doing nothing that looked like a real diet. You get crazy night sweats and burn calories all the time.
Since I’m still new to steroids I’m waiting to mess with the big ones like teen and anadrol
My next cycle I’m going to try tren e though so I can gain decent size while staying lean
I love tren despite the sides. However, the wife DID NOT AGREE! Apparently the monster steroid turned me into a monster.
If I were single again, I’d be on it in a heartbeat.
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Alright I am going to try and explain the thought process behind the answer so you can adjust appropriately for your situation.
If you go look at “pro” cycles for before a show from reputable sources online they tend to have a common style. If they are containing long esters they are usually like 16-20 weeks long. All the long ester compounds are used early on and stopped at least six weeks before the end of the cycle. If they do have long chain usage to the end of the cycle it is a dry compound.
Another commonly seen thing is all shots are stopped a week before the show. They tend to time it where the show is one week after shots are stopped and then PCT starts like the day after the show. (This PCT timing is correct for short ester chains not long chain like enanthate.)
From what I understand any shot makes you hold a tiny bit of water even a dry compound. So all this timing is done so when they walk across the stage they have absolutely the tiniest smallest barely detectable amount of any injectable especially a wet compound like testosterone and thus the smallest amount of water hiding definition.
What they also do a week or two before the show is start with lowering and controlling any water they drink. They take diuretics to help force any water out. Ultimately they want as little water in them between the skin and the muscle. I don’t know the timing of the diuretics and show time.
I don’t know when your show is. You stated a lowered dose of 200 mgs a week, that is about double a TRT dosage. Let’s say that at the end of week 16 is your show and you have enough winstrol to run 5 weeks. For week 1-10 you can take the original stated dose of test at 450 a week. Starting week 11 you should drop the test to 100mgs a week and take the winstrol. You do that for weeks 11-15. Because of your earlier dosage of test the amount released from the ester will be above 100mgs a week until about week 15. On week 15 I would only take the dose of 100 at the beginning of week 15 the show will be 14 days later so by the time you walk across stage you will be about the lowest level of test you would ever want to be. No testosterone enanthate shot taken between the beginning of week 15 and the show at the end of week 16.
Now you can adjust your timing to how much test you have available and winstrol. You can do 12 weeks of test at 450 as long as you give your self time to lower the level of test e and thus lower the water retention. Just make sure you are at the lower dose of 100 mgs of test e at least six weeks out from your show so that the build up of prior test e at 450 has time to disipate along with at least 14 days of no more test e before you walk across the stage.
You could even time it where you are done and PCT starts before the show but remember that the winstrol does help some guys dry out. I would time it close to what I laid out above so you walk across as dry as possible given the compounds used. If you time it where you are done with everything including winstrol three weeks before your show then the dry effect of winstrol will be wearing off.
Just to add in another bit. If you go search the net there is a whole group of guys that think Nolvadex helps you cut. Think about it these guys do a cycle and have water retention then stop their shots and two weeks later start Nolvadex. Then as the residual test e goes down the water retention goes down and all of that hidden definition starts to show. They think we’ll all this definition is showing up when I take Nolvadex so they make the connection in their head Nolvadex equals extra definition at the end of a cycle. The reality is they are not connected it’s just the timing.
I hope I explained enough for you to be able to adjust your timing to maximize what shows at the show.
What about hcg? Should I cut that out at all??
The show is October 20th
So I’ll start test e at 450mg per week and run that for 10 weeks then I run 100mg test e for 5 weeks and start 50mg winstrol 40days out(all I have)
And run that all the way through?
And I’ll start hcg 10 weeks out? Or should I do hcg right after the show
Ok the HCG will actually make you aromatize test even if you have a massive dose of AI. Not sure how it does it but I have read that enough from a wide variety of sources that I believe there has to be some level of truth to it. So the HCG will force a rise in estrogen, even if you take Nolvadex (for gyno protection) and arimidex with it on cycle you will still have extra water retention due to it.
Let me play with a calendar then write out what I would do if I were you. I think you understand what I was getting but I date a woman who’s first language is not English so I am all to aware of how ambiguous English can be.
Ok I am going to lay out the cycle backwards then reiterate a few things. I think you got what I was rambling about but I am just going to be extra careful.
Show is Oct 20
Last shot of test e at 100 mgs is Oct 7.
As long as you at least do test e at 100 mgs for September 30, 23, 16, and 9 (and Oct 7) then you have given yourself enough time to have the prior dosage of 450 mgs pw to disapate. That should be enough time for the extra water retention to go down, but everyone is different. If you kept a log from you first cycle then go back and see what week of your PCT you seemed to drop 5 lbs out of nowhere. That could help you refine this time table.
Now depending on how much test you have in hand for this cycle you can do 10-12 weeks at 450mgs per week as long as you do the time table above and give yourself enough time to get the residual test e down. You will get the test e releasing from the ester to a TRT level. (You shouldn’t have extra water retention at a TRT level) If you have enough for ten weeks then you start July 1.
Depending on if you want to run your winstrol up to the show, like the day before then you start that on Oct 16. If you want to be off of it for the week prior to the show then start Oct 9. I believe you stated you had enough for five weeks.
When you go back and think about your last cycle and you remember lossing about 5 lbs out of nowhere at the very end of a four week PCT then this time table should be good. If you seem to remember lossing 5 lbs two weeks after a four week PCT then I would add an extra week of test E at 100 mgs starting on September 2, still following the rest of the shot schedule. If you remember lossing 5 lbs early in your PCT then that’s even better, still follow the shot schedule in the second paragraph.
I don’t think HCG is a good idea with what you are trying to accomplish. Provided you had a fairly straightforward recovery on your last cycle.
There are two main thoughts on HCG. The common current method is use it on cycle to prevent total shutdown. I don’t think winstrol is going to give you any major issues with recovery post cycle, again provided your last recovery was smooth. The second method of HCG usage is the old school way of blasting right before PCT to help kick the boys back on. They use to stop their steroid shots then during the two weeks they waited to start PCT that’s when they did HCG, if they did any PCT. If you are worried about recovery then given what you are trying to accomplish with what is available I would think a modification of the old school method might fit you. Just blast the HCG the week after your show then start PCT, they could overlap a couple of days but it’s counter productive to run HCG and Nolvadex at the same time.
If you want to go with a modification of the current method of HCG usage then use it during the period you are taking test e at 450mgs. Once you start the lower dosage of 100mgs I would stop the HCG usage. My prior posts cover why.
Things to remember and think about before you set anything in stone. When you start your lower per week dosage of test e the following week to two weeks the amount released from the ester from prior shots is still going to be pretty high. Some guys feel like crap when the test level drops like that, loss of energy and motivation. You will be starting your winstrol either with your first week of test at 100 or the second week. That winstrol should help keep you from crashing.
If during this period when you are at the lower test and on the winstrol you do not see weight loss indicating the water retention is going down, do not panic. Some guys just loss a little bit at a time so they never notice a five pound drop over night. It might be at week three to five when you see the scale drop or you might just lose half a pound every other day.
If you are going to use diuretics and have never used them before, I would go get some and try them before your cycle starts so that you know when to take them right before your show. Do not use them throughout the whole cycle, just the week or few days right before the show.
Thank you so much man you’re honestly awesome for helping me this much!!
I’m going to go through with your advice 100%
I’ll post up once I’ve started and I’ll lyk how it all goes