T Nation

Cycle Eval?


#1

Me: 29, 6'2", 274#, 20%, meso!

History: 300mg Deca x10 weeks x2 cycles
40mg Anavar ED x4 weeks.
I reacted really well to this Var. I gained 7# and I know I lost some fat too. Even at 20% BF the hardening effect was pronounced. Made me horny and put me in a great mood with no shrinkage. [i]ANAVAR IS SOOOOO WORTH THE $$$ IMHFO![/i] One bad side effect was a lot of really nasty heartburn.

Goals: Get stronger, get bigger muscles, get leaner, overall shooting for well proportioned gains that will last. For personal reasons, I do not want amazingly massive test muscles. The test in this cycle is to help with the Deca induced lethargy.

Cycle: Ill mark areas Im particularly curious about[?].

1-4 Anavar 40mg ED
1-3 Deca 300mg
1-3 Test Cyp 150mg
4-10 Deca 500mg
4-10 Test Cyp 300mg
3-12 hCG 250IU EOD/E3D[?] possible alternating frequency
11-14 Anavar 60mg ED
11-16 Test Cyp 150mg stasis
17-20 Test Cyp 120/90/60/30 taper
[?] Arimidex [?]mg ED/EOD/[?]
21-40 repeat[?]

All test and Deca doses are split 2x week.

I increased the stasis taper dosage to compensate for the heavy Cyp ester. Anyone know the specific ratio of the actual test you get per 1mg of Cyp to 1mg of Prop? I figured long acting Cyp was the best compliment to Deca. I dont think the second Var cycle will affect the stasis taper significantly since Var is so 'weak'. Any dissenting opinions?

Im also looking into beginning GH therapy. This posted cycle could be coincident with a 3-6 month GH cycle. Maybe 4-6IU daily average. I am going to a talk to a medical doctor about this. He is about 50 and I know him to be very friendly to the power lifting community.

[i]Does anyone have any guess as to how this physician might react if I say Im considering IV GH?[/i]


#2

Hes not going to like that at all.

The medical community is scared of HGH, and IV especially.

I cant really comment further on HGH.


#3

Maybe I wont bring that up then.


#4

Why taper up the Cyp and Deca? I think by the time the higher doses you implement in week 4 kick in, you will be nearingthe end of your cycle. Front loading both cyp and deca at the full desired dose on Day 1 of the cycle will give you steady levels throughout.

Also, you should stop the deca a week or two before the cyp to prevent deca sides.

Stasis should start when your blood levels of AAS have dropped adequately to start PCT. There should be a 2 - 2.5 week waiting period of no injects following your last cyp and deca shots prior to starting stasis. Stasis should be run at 100mg/w. Taper from 80mg/w down.

Do you have experience with the stasis/taper as you laid it out? Has it worked for you in the past?


#5

Sorry, duplicate post. T-Nation is acting up this morning.


#6

Duplicate post - sorry T-Nation problems...


#7

While the cessation of Nandrolone some time before Testosterone is often a good idea - it will do fuck all for 'Deca Sides'.

Even without using Deca, one can be aware that the only side that Test will help in regards to Nandrolone is Androgenic in nature. Test converts to DHT and Nandrolone does not (DHN).
Now, a small amount of Test (100mg+/wk) will provide enough to DHT for the comfortable running of Nandrolone, and if one was to dose 500mg Test Cyp per week, then after 2 weeks of discontinuation the total test level is still just below 100mg.

Nandrolone will make recovery harder due to the increase in Prolactin which suppress the HPTA in its own right, and it also 'inhibits' libido independently of HPTA function.
As i seeem to be repeating frequently, a Dopamine Agonist is what is called for - and it is my (relatively new) opinion that Nandrolone should either be ran with a Dopamine Agonist, or not at all.
I like nandrolone, and have used it plenty with some very pleasant results in size and muscle, and mild but noticeable strength gains - but the sexual sides are so... effective - for want of a better word - and long lasting, that without something that reduces the Prolactin, it just isnt worth it.

:wink:


#8

I'd pick Tren over Deca for your goals.


#9

Do you think that controlling prolactin levels will make recovery less difficult than if it were to go unchecked?

Or are the other, more influential, reasons why nand is more suppressive than the high prolactin levels. (I am assuming that there are other reasons for the increased intesity in suppression; I don't actually know if there are or aren't additional reasons besides high prolactin levels)


#10

Anavar is overpiced and meant for female bodybuilders [b]IMHFO[/b] I don't subscribe to pyrmamid'ing my dosages. 750 for the ride or 1g for the first 2-3. I would opt for tren over deca merely because of price and experience with the mighty compound. .25-.5 ED AI admin will keep the evil estrogen fairy away. Although it can be a kind and potent fairy to some, it has to be merely kept in check. I have very little knowledge on HGH admin so I cannot offer any input. If supply is readily available, I would use the stasis as a bridge between cycles since it seems to me that you plan on resuming at week 21.


#11

I wouldn't go THAT far.

Its true that var is somewhat wasted on men due to its cost and the fact that men do not fear masculine sideeffects, and the fact that most will simply use winny instead for cutting. When a comparable dose of dbol or drol or OT or tren or mast....etc would produce similar results.

But var is a strength athletes friend, and it also can offset the tendon problems associated with other androgen's use, such as test..

It has its uses for men, they are just rather specific cases.

The sprinter for example running a test cycle, I recommended he use var instead of dbol.


#12

No experience. On my two deca cycles I just stopped and five weeks later I was back to normal. I see the 100 stasis, 80- taper prescribed for short ester test. Since Cyp has a long ester, upping the dosage slightly will compensate for the smaller number of molecules per mg of Cyp compared to Prop. Maybe 150 stasis is too high, but surely a Cyp stasis should higher than one with Prop.


#13

Why? Maybe it's just due to my limited experience but Deca made me very strong. [Or maybe it was that I hadn't lifted in a year and got back to where I used to be real quick.] lol! Now that I think about that one you always get awesome gains when you dont lift for a long time.

Im reluctant to try Tren just because my blood pressure is already high and to beat a dead fucking horse, I heard from a bird that Tren gains are fleeting. Ive never seen any effectiveness chart that suggested Tren was good in the 'Keep Gains' column. I do always see Deca, Var and hGH with big scores here. I know that's not so scientific but the trend is there.

I am interested in Tren though since Id like to try most of the majors at some point. Maybe if I ever start taking blood pressure meds.

Anyone know anything about taking blood pressure meds on the cycle?


#14

762, I suggested Tren for its leaning and strengthening effects. It will help you lean up with the right diet while still making gains. There are sides that need to be researched. I think you are doing the right thing by asking and figuring out before you start.


#15

Oh yeah, blood pressure meds are fine to be taken on cycle. BUT, I would not start any unless under a doctors supervision.


#16

Paired with test, tren leads to very lean, sustainable gains.

The strength gains are somewhat difficult to keep completely, but that true of most steroids.

Deca provides very little in the way of strength, its usually mass.

Blood pressure is an issue with tren, deca has few side effects in that regard.


#17

AFAIK, prolactin is suppressive by itself to the HPTA, and is not controlled by SERM's/AI's once it is has been produced enough to be effective. ie. It sticks around post cycle making recovery harder.

It also reduces libido.. so if prolactin is raised, then Caber/Bromo WILL BE needed to reduce that hormone so recovery can be maximised.

My own experience is slightly different - while this is true to the best of my knowledge of how the hormone acts in Men (it is indigenous to us), i believe that recovery wasn't too difficult for me post Deca, it was the remaining Prolactin that just diminished libido to such a degree, that it made sex an unattractive prospect.
This is the number 1 symptom that i look for in recovery - so it clouded my judgement for many years, thinking that the reduced libido was due to incomplete recovery after Deca therapy - except Test supplementation, HCG and further Nolva didnt work!

Not only that but gains were coming during this period, i felt confident and fine in myself, i just didn't want sex.
Prolactin through and through.

Caber/bromo is a must with this drug. Done.


#18

Deca is a hell of a lot cheaper than Tren. Not saying that Tren isnt a favourite of mine too - just saying that it costs more.