T Nation

Cycle Critique


This is the plan.
8 wk cycle.
4 constant chemicals: Nolva, Deca, Dbol( for 4 wks), Sust
PCT: clomid + hcg

Dbol- 20mg ED for 4 weeks
Sust- 250 mg per WK. 8 wks.
Deca- 200 mg per WK. 8 wks.
Nolva- front load 1 week b4 cycle to dry me out and prep new hormonal balance. 20 mg ED 1 week prior to the first shot. Then continued throughout cycle for lean dry look and to combat gyno.

Clomid: start 1 week after last shot. 100mg for 10 days. 50 mg for 8 more days.
Hcg: 10,000 iu?? i need help here with hcg dosage and timing plz.

side notes: -deca and sust will be loaded in same syringe for 1 shot per week.
-potentially up deca to 300 mg. just depends on circumstance. start conservatively.


And where might I ask is the long estered test?


I thought Sust250 consisted of a blend of 4 test esters including a longer one?

This question might seem a little out of left field considering the initial post, however please comment on this subsequent question and the initial post...

Question: What would be the smallest advisable dose one might administer of test eth. over an 8 week cycle followed by the test taper? I'm thinking 500mg is a little much.


Wow. There are so many holes in your cycle, you could run laps through it. Let's see..

  1. There's absolutely no reason to be running Nolvadex during cycle. It's a selective-estrogen receptor modulator. Know what that means? It's French for "save it for after your cycle."

  2. Not only are you taking a very small amount of Deca, but you're also not running it near long enough to benefit anything from it.

  3. Same situation with your Dianabol. Ever gone to a strip club with high hopes only to find out at the last minute that it's topless-only? Yeah, it's just a big tease. That number should be at least 30mg, and I say that with caution.

  4. There's hardly any testosterone in this cycle. You should double that number and balance out the ratio of Testosterone to Deca to be about 3:2

  5. Just what makes you think nolvadex is going to provide a "lean dry look?"

  6. You're going to want to split the Sustanon 250 injections to about every two days-ish, not once per week.

  7. Why would you think 500mg/week is too much? You're only running an 8 week cycle, don't expect anything more than an empty wallet with the small (and unbalanced) numbers you're running now.

Now read up some more, patch up the holes, tell us what your stats are, and we'll go from there.


Sounds like its time to go back to the drawing board.


First off thank you for the response and advice Contrl even if it was a little sarcastic. Thats ok. I am under the impression that estrogen causes water retention. Nolva=No Estrogen= No water retention? I'd much rather cycle test e and taper off. It seems much easier seeing as how I'd only be playing with two chemicals. As for the low dosages... if i respond to less test, why use more? As far as my stats go... not that i believe they matter... I'm 20. 5'9". 190lbs. I've been lifting for 8 years. 5 of them intelligently. Weight gain is at a crawl for me now unless i pudge out. Strength gain about equally slow. and I believe plateaued...at 170 i can clean 305, bench 340, squat 500. Nearly the same at 190.


Not sarcasm there, big guy. Just looking out for you before you put something into your body without knowing the how or the why.


Nolvadex itself won't keep estrogen from binding completely. It will only selectively bind in such a way as to prevent gyno from forming; this should only be included in a cycle if you start feeling the symptoms of gynomastia (tender, swollen nipples). If you want to minimize bloat, you could try cutting down your carb intake (this doesn't include your post-workout shakes, which should include plenty of carbs) and possibly adding an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) to your cycle.

I just noticed you said you were 20, so I'm obliged to ask you to reconsider any use of AAS for a few more years. You ask why use more, and I'll tell you the best answer: If this is going to be your first cycle (and I do hope you reconsider waiting) then it's destined to yield the best results. Wasting that kind of potential with such low doses is just an awful shame.


why wait?


Because you're only 20 years old, and at 20 years old you're more than capable of putting on enough muscle if only you eat and train properly. If you honestly think that taking steroids means you'll get huge without eating and training properly, you're in for a disappointing surprise.

Ultimately, steroids should be a reliable aid when natural growth peaks. Not a shortcut for the small.

Not to mention the fact that you're in serious risk of stunting your health because you're not very knowledgeable in what you're doing.


i honestly dont think that you can evaluate whether or not i've hit my geneitc peak from the stats i gave you. in fact the only person to make that call knowledgeably is me...


i eat around 5kcals a day. on a bad day i ingest 1 gram of protein per. lb of bodyweight. i train my ass off. its (the choice to juice )definitely not a "shortcut for the small" for me. thats offensive considering the effort i put out in the gym.


I dont think your getting his point. At 20 years old your natural test levels are plenty high enough that they do not yet need to be supplemented with steriods.

However I think that there are thousands of people other than yourself that realize that you are no where near close to your genitic peak. Maybe your body will respond better to a minimum of 2 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight. You may need to look into a different training program or style.

If you feel you have plateaued at 20 years old then its time to look at why. Im not saying that anything you do is not right. It can likley just be improved on.


you're 20...which is young...but you have begun considering and putting some effort into trying to design a cycle...so you will likely follow through. the age point is now a non issue.

  • drop the deca, and up the test. sust is okay to use....just make sure to shoot at the very least 2 times/week. test E or C would be preferable though. you will want your test dosage to be around 500 mg/week.

  • increase the duration to 10-12 weeks.

  • you can keep the d-bol jumpstart in there, but you should up the dosage slightly. 30 mg ED is where it should be.

-the nolva during serves no purpose IMO, and does not provide a lean dry look...how can a SERM truly acheive that?! it does not affect systemic estrogen levels....an AI like a-dex or a-sin does that.

  • keep the nolva on hand in case of flare up. consider running a moderate dose of an AI if you want the "dry look". 0.5 mg ED of a-dex is a decent dose for 500 mg test/week.
  • do not bother with HCG for a cycle like this. waste of time.

do a little more reading and come up with a revised plan for critique.


Thanks for the responses. Sorry for the misunderstanding Contrl. I realize you are just trying to help, not flame. Juice20jd I've been doing some reading on Test E + dbol cycles. 12 weeks on Test E and 4 weeks of dbol to "jump start." Some places I read state that for a first cycle 400mg of Test E (per wk.) and 20mg of dbol (each day) is sufficient.

Can you explain why here at T-Nation ppl think 500mg of test and 30mg of dbol is more appropriate? Thanks.


Let us know what you decided on.


at your size....400 test/week and 20-30 mg d-bol ED will be sufficient.

500 is just a benchmark number.


I mentioned 500mg for the sake of making the measurement easier. I think it's a safe assumption to say that you're using something with a 250mg/ml concentration, so it's easier to just double that and end up with 500mg than to calculate it to two injections totalling 400mg.