T Nation

Cycle Critique


#1

T-Nation...newbie on deck. Wanted to post an oral cycle for critique. Reason for just orals....trying to achieve gains without getting the WTF is he on look and want to lay low from the all seeing eye. Here's my stats:

5-10, 218lbs, BF%-16%...35 y/o male....I have been strength training since 17. Lifting stats: Well I don't know my 1RM but here's my triples poundage Squat 550lbs, Deadlift 435lbs, Bench 250lbs which is weak for my standards. No previous use of AAS. Cycle goals: Gain strenth w/o gaining a significant amount of weight..staying around 230lbs, improve my 40 time and get my BF% down to at least low double digits...10-12%.

Proposed Cycle: (From a post from FuriousGeorge)

Drol 100mg/day 1-6 wks
Winstrol 50mg/day 1-6 wks

PCT - Novla....Don't recall Furious stating the dosage but I am planning 40/30/20. Furious' PCT was for weeks 7-9. Thought about doing one extra week of /20/ if that makes a difference on not. Also, when will be the best time to run Clen during the cycle.

Thanks in advance for the critique T-Nation...

HC5///


#2

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#3

The standard nolva PCT protocol is 40/40/20/20


#4

Thanks BBB…any advice on the Clen?..anavar dosages?


#5

I wonder if anyone has ever used 25 mgs of anadrol a day, I would like to see someone take 25mgs of anadrol a day. Anyways, I think a dose of 60 mgs a day of anavar is pretty standard. Or maybe try 25 mgs a day of anadrol and 30-50 mgs a day of winstrol? Why is your bench press so weak in comparison to your squat and deadlift?


#6

HC5 the single best compound strength is tren. The single best compound for strength without weight gain is tren. The best compound to improve your 40 time and decrease bodyfat is arguably tren as well.

Get the picture. Hope you’re not afraid of needles.

Gaining muscle with simultaneously losing fat is tricky and relies heavily upon your diet. I’ve found the use of GHRP6 as a necessary aide in this pursuit. In fact we could even argue that it may be better to start there prior to using the AAS.


#7

I wouldn’t expect anything near the effects i get from G6 without the concurrent use of AAS personally.


#8

[quote]idowhatican wrote:
I wonder if anyone has ever used 25 mgs of anadrol a day, I would like to see someone take 25mgs of anadrol a day. Anyways, I think a dose of 60 mgs a day of anavar is pretty standard. Or maybe try 25 mgs a day of anadrol and 30-50 mgs a day of winstrol? Why is your bench press so weak in comparison to your squat and deadlift?[/quote]

Still recovering from a chest injury…football…got blasted by a LB catching a swing pass out of the backfield. I always retain leg strength better than upper body…go figure. Plus had been a little inconsistent at the gym too.


#9

[quote]saps wrote:
HC5 the single best compound strength is tren. The single best compound for strength without weight gain is tren. The best compound to improve your 40 time and decrease bodyfat is arguably tren as well.

Get the picture. Hope you’re not afraid of needles.

Gaining muscle with simultaneously losing fat is tricky and relies heavily upon your diet. I’ve found the use of GHRP6 as a necessary aide in this pursuit. In fact we could even argue that it may be better to start there prior to using the AAS.[/quote]

Nah not afraid of needles…was highly concidering orals because I didn’t want 20 plus pound gains and easier AAS supplementation. Don’t want to get to heavy…might kill my 40 time. I’ll check out GHRP6 on dosages, price and etc…appreciate the info.


#10

[quote]J-J wrote:
I wouldn’t expect anything near the effects i get from G6 without the concurrent use of AAS personally.[/quote]

J-J…what’s the protocol as for as using G6 and AAS concidering what AAS I plan on using?


#11

There is no protocol… just use both!

So whatever way you were planning on using the G6 and whatever way you were planning on using the AAS is fine.

The reason i say it is because of the increased protein synthesis, nitrogen retention, IGF-1, nutrient partitioning effects of AAS are highly synergistic with GH (exo or endo) - and especially with such enormous amount of food eaten with secretagogues, this is even more vital.


#12

[quote]saps wrote:
HC5 the single best compound strength is tren. The single best compound for strength without weight gain is tren. The best compound to improve your 40 time and decrease bodyfat is arguably tren as well.

Get the picture. Hope you’re not afraid of needles.

Gaining muscle with simultaneously losing fat is tricky and relies heavily upon your diet. I’ve found the use of GHRP6 as a necessary aide in this pursuit. In fact we could even argue that it may be better to start there prior to using the AAS.[/quote]

One note on Tren…may not be the best option for my trade. I might gain strength but Tren decreases ability to substain endurance…got to have my wind to maintain speed for track and football.


#13

[quote]J-J wrote:
There is no protocol… just use both!

So whatever way you were planning on using the G6 and whatever way you were planning on using the AAS is fine.

The reason i say it is because of the increased protein synthesis, nitrogen retention, IGF-1, nutrient partitioning effects of AAS are highly synergistic with GH (exo or endo) - and especially with such enormous amount of food eaten with secretagogues, this is even more vital.[/quote]

Bet…sounds good. Appreciate the knowledge…I will run with that.


#14

[quote]J-J wrote:
I wouldn’t expect anything near the effects i get from G6 without the concurrent use of AAS personally.[/quote]

I don’t know. I’ve been off tren for a couple months now and Im still retaining 90-95% of the strength I had on it. In fact for the last 3 weeks I’ve been at just 100mg of TE [stasis] and when I adjusted from 300mcg back to 500mcg Im actually getting more reps this week than 2 weeks ago. Without doubt or question they are most effective when used together. But G6 certainly does something noticeable as a virtual standalone IMO.

Not to threadjack but some more info might help out those in question. So basically for May, June and July I was on 1G of TE and 400mg of TRE. Ran out [planned] of TRE in middle of July. Waited 2 weeks, kept the G of TE going and then started ND at 300mg a week along with dbol and started the G6 around this time too. Ended Deca and dbol around the 7/8th of Sept.

So even now at the end of Sept Im still virtually the same weight and virtually as strong as I was even in July at my peak saturation on Tren strengthwise. Also coming off deca and dbol most would think I’d shed scale weight lbs 3 weeks later, I have not.

Im just saying G6 for the $$ is a no brainer and must have on or off cycle


#15

[quote]J-J wrote:
There is no protocol… just use both!

So whatever way you were planning on using the G6 and whatever way you were planning on using the AAS is fine.

The reason i say it is because of the increased protein synthesis, nitrogen retention, IGF-1, nutrient partitioning effects of AAS are highly synergistic with GH (exo or endo) - and especially with such enormous amount of food eaten with secretagogues, this is even more vital.[/quote]
Bingo!


#16

[quote]HurricaneC5 wrote:
saps wrote:
HC5 the single best compound strength is tren. The single best compound for strength without weight gain is tren. The best compound to improve your 40 time and decrease bodyfat is arguably tren as well.

Get the picture. Hope you’re not afraid of needles.

Gaining muscle with simultaneously losing fat is tricky and relies heavily upon your diet. I’ve found the use of GHRP6 as a necessary aide in this pursuit. In fact we could even argue that it may be better to start there prior to using the AAS.

One note on Tren…may not be the best option for my trade. I might gain strength but Tren decreases ability to substain endurance…got to have my wind to maintain speed for track and football.[/quote]

Fair Point there. Tren for me is an aerobic crippler. Moreso for track although sprints of 10-20 seconds should be ok.

A lot of MMA guys like Mast as its sorta of a tren-lite for some in that you get strong without losing the ability to breathe


#17

Ok I decided to come back to this post because I have linked up with a possible supply of injectable AAS. My goals have slightly changed. The body weight I am trying to achieve is 240 or so. My current weight is 228lbs@18% BF, 36 yo male, 17 years of strength training experience. Lifting stats: 5 Rep Squat 565lbs, 3 Rep Deadlift 420, 1RM Bench 330. I am not concern with achieving a 10% or lower body fat since that I know my strength decreases with my body fat dropping concurrently.

My main concern is achieving more power and strength for football…along with weight gain of course. Since I will be changing positions that will require less endurance, the suggested AAS stated previously can be considered. My ideal cycle will be a short one at least 6 weeks. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks T-Nation.

HC5


#18

Hey, I feel like it’s overlooked sometimes, but Halo is great for strength and little to no muscle mass gain, and actually has legit research behind it showing to increas VO2 max.

Hmm… not RECOMMENDING this per se, but I’d be interested what some of the super-smarties (I classify myself as a normal smarty on this subject) have to think about the following for an oral only strength cycle:

6 Weeks of the following:
20 mg Halo (low AR affinity, oddly enough)
60 mg Var (high AR affinity,)
HCG 3x/week for easier recovery and to keep estro in normal range OR 20mg Dbol

Nolva and/or Clomid PCT