T Nation

~Cycle Critique~

2nd cycle:

Dianabol 45mg 4 weeks

Deca 400mg 1-12 weeks

Test E or C 500mg 1-14 weeks (Whats the difference)

Proviron 50mg Split am-pm 6-14

.25mg Liquidex EOD during cycle


Nolva 40mg-30mg-20mg

My main concern here is to have less water retention compared to my 1st cycle of 10 week Test Cyp 500mg. 20 mg nolva everday weeks 8-10 then 10-13 i did 40mg 30mg 20mg

So im guessing the Liquidex/Arimidex will keep the bloating and water down significantly. Will if hinder my gains as much as the Nolvadex may have?
Also as soon as i started the Nolvadex around week 8, i noticed mood swings and depression, and i hated it. Will Arimidex do that at all, more,or less or probably not?
If so should i just keep it on hand or do it E3D’s?

So How bout adding Masteron to the cycle , how could i fit that in there?
i really want to stay hard this time with less bloat.

Stats 22 6’4 230 newbie

One more question bare with me LOL
E3D:Does this mean, M-T-Sunday
EOD M-W-F-Sunday

Ed & EOD is basically the same duration of time between shots…

Im confused how should i dose this stuff?

Wow where to begin. Hopefully you have been lifting since you were 14. Since you already did a cycle I will skip the you’re still too young IMO speech.

OK here’s what looks good to me: I like your dbol, I like the Deca for 12 weeks, and I like the proviron starting at week 6.

Here’s my concerns: 400mg of Deca to me demands at least 650mg a week of Test. Or if you want to keep your Test at 500 cut back the Deca to 300mg a week. Right from the start you are intending to use A-dex. While .25mg EOD is not too much and seems prudent it still qualifies as fixing the problem before it is broken. I’d wait on the A-dex usage until you need it which you may not. While proviron is not a true anti-e per se it will help to guard against some e-related sides.

You mentioned wanting to stay hard and avoid bloat yet you are choosing Deca/Cyp and a dbol kickstart. Now this is a great mass cycle combo but for hardness you could select better products. A Prop/mast combo immediately comes to mind. Also 14 weeks is a long time to be on Enanthate and trying to avoid bloat.

If you keep the Deca you cannot really do it justice in 6-8 weeks. But if you dropped the Deca you could kick the Test up to 750mg a week or even 375mg E3D and run that for 8-10weeks. There are quite a few different directions you could go in here.

Regarding Nolva; although its more common with Clomid, many guys do report, shall we call it, being overly emotional on SERM’s.

Regarding E3D, ED and EOD the name is what it is. ED is EveryDay meaning 24 hours between pins. EOD is EveryOtherDay or 48 hours between pins. Simple.

Others will say it as well but you probably want to go back to the drawing board and figure a lot of things out. Even with a cycle under your belt you seem slightly under-educated. Though I can tell you have some know-how just reading your proposed cycle.

Bro, thanx for taking the time for respond, thats just what i was looking for. well said.
So Prop/Mast , i dont know much about prop other than more needles. not a problem, reminds me im on cycle and keeps me determined to give 100%.
anyways what did u have in mind, your right i dont know much really, but willing to learn

What about Cypionate & Masteron. Front load the test with Prop i heard of someone doing also.
(10 weeks) i can watch my bloat with the arimidex on hand.

Or if its risky then ill go with the Prop/Mast, maybe u could sketch something up briefly?

And why might I ask has tren not been mentioned in this discussion?

Masteron is great and all for hardness, but to be honest I have gotten the same effect from tren, and not at the same price regarding feeling and strength. The main complaint I have heard against masteron is the fact it makes one feel so damn tight and therefore could also affect your gains due to reduced training.

You could run something like an 8 weeker with prop and tren.

Prop at 150mg EOD and tren at 50-75ED or 100-150 EOD. I’d recommend going with 50mg ED, that seems to work best for a lot of my trainees since the side effects are not as pronounced.

Keep in mind though, you would not want to run tren the whole 8 weeks, 5 at the most.

Regarding a proper post cycle approach on this, a short stasis and taper would work best for you due to the compounds used. Say 4 weeks at 100 and then taper for 4 weeks following that.

Regarding Adex on cycle, don’t always use it. Have it around, but don’t use it till you need it. My advice regarding the nolvadex is to stay away till after your cycle, and then use it only at 20mg ED if you have gyno.

And to be honest with ya, an 8 weeker of test enan with 2-4 weeks of tren on the end would be a great cycle with very few sides, and a bonus of a quick recovery. Run test at around 700mg/wk with tren ED or EOD.

Lastly, regarding your injection schedule, don’t write one up according to days of the week. You just need to inject every other day or every three days. Use numbers, not days. Hopefully that clears up your apparent confusion.


From what ive read i havent been too fond of the Tren…
One more thing, i do spin classes 2/week
Would the tren reduce my endurance any?

Anyways heres what i came up with

150 Test P EOD - 1-8 600mg 8-10 300 mg 10-12 150mg
75mg Mast P EOD - 300 week week 1-8
50 mg Tren E3D - 150 week week 1-5

PCT nolva week 12-15
20 40 20

Im assuming the tren you are using is tren enathate? I do like the synergy of multiple drugs, however the 150mg/wk is just too low of a dose.

Why change the prop dosage all over the place?

Take what you have and end it all at 8 weeks. Adding in more tren or remove it completley.

So the test dosage change/ taper deal should go huh?. k.

so at the end of week 8 just start PCT, then?
Is HCG necessary you think?

You apparently have done little or no research on what you’re trying to achieve.

Look for the Test Taper Protocol on this forum-- it will answer your questions.


Yeah SQuattro4 you really want to get your understanding up before you start this process. I can see how you can get confused with all the various products and what not but that’s all the more reason not to start until you are sure you know what you are doing and why you are doing it. You have received some very decent advice in this thread but you need to pool it all together. First thing you need to do is decide exactly what your goals are from this cycle.