T Nation

Cycle at 18, Long Term Damage?


#1

I am planning on doing my first cycle of dianabol in a couple of weeks. Given I am only 18, I am just worried about long term hormonal damage done to the pituitary gland and testes. However, I have done 3 cycles of pro hormones before and proved my body to be quite resilient. However I know that dianabol being one of the top 3 most powerful orals, there could be a significant difference. I really got to thinking though... What is the difference between a woman taking birth control and a man taking steroids? Each are synthetic hormones injected into the body and shut down ovary/testicle function depending on obviously if you are a male or female.

Now, oral anabolics are double methylated to bypass the liver on its first run through the liver... Oral birth control (being a hormone) MUST have a double methylated fixation to it in order to bypass the liver as well, correct? Either way, both would prove to have a certain liver toxicity. Is it just that estrogen/estriadol (whichever it is in O.B.C) is less toxic than a powerful anabolic oral steroid??

And why then do steroids have the 'stereotype' if you will, of screwing up your hormones no matter the age-but especially in young adults like me- but birth control does not? I mean some girls start birth control when they're only 13! That has to screw some shit up in respect to long term hormonal damage. I've read articles of women having problems menstruating and normal body function after 5, 10, or even 15+ years of taking B.C. Which is totally understandable.

Because if a man does a cycle of steroids even 5 years, I would have no doubt that they would have done permanent lasting damage done, and would then have to rely on test replacement for the rest of their life. Now if anybody would know an answer to these questions, I would very much so like a response. I am currently enrolled in college taking my pre-med courses. And am aspiring to be a medical doctor so I am not ignorant to these types of discussions and would like legitimate answers, Thank you.

  1. Why would an oral steroid be any more toxic than an oral birth control, and is O.B.C double methylated? And if not, then why?
  2. Why is there stigma around steroids and not birth control of causing lasting damage, even with a 6-8 week cycle, when women take B.C. for 10 years plus?

1 more bit of info...
I'm currently 5'8" and 175 pounds. I got my bench up to 315 naturally and my squat to 420 when I was 17. After my best cycle of pro-hormones, my max 1 rep bench was 375 and my squat was around 500 (Given I never maxed out on squat nor did major strength promoting workouts for my legs. I focused on my size) And I was 185 pounds and around 11 percent body fat. I am just looking to get back and a lot ahead of what I lost after not working out for 3 months after my last football season and want to keep as many gains as possible. I've been working out for about 3 months again and just feel like its time to get my body back.


#2

Whatever you choose, I wouldnt start anything until you have “got your body back”


#3

[quote]A_Boss wrote:

Now, oral anabolics are double methylated to bypass the liver on its first run through the liver… Oral birth control (being a hormone) MUST have a double methylated fixation to it in order to bypass the liver as well, correct? Either way, both would prove to have a certain liver toxicity. Is it just that estrogen/estriadol (whichever it is in O.B.C) is less toxic than a powerful anabolic oral steroid??

[/quote]

Dosages. Birth Control pill dosage don’t come anywhere near even a very conservative cycle dosages. Take Test in the same dosages and you will probably have less possible side-effects than birth control pills.


#4

[quote]A_Boss wrote:
I am planning on doing my first cycle of dianabol in a couple of weeks. Given I am only 18, I am just worried about long term hormonal damage done to the pituitary gland and testes. However, I have done 3 cycles of pro hormones before and proved my body to be quite resilient. However I know that dianabol being one of the top 3 most powerful orals, there could be a significant difference. I really got to thinking though… What is the difference between a woman taking birth control and a man taking steroids? Each are synthetic hormones injected into the body and shut down ovary/testicle function depending on obviously if you are a male or female.

Now, oral anabolics are double methylated to bypass the liver on its first run through the liver… Oral birth control (being a hormone) MUST have a double methylated fixation to it in order to bypass the liver as well, correct? Either way, both would prove to have a certain liver toxicity. Is it just that estrogen/estriadol (whichever it is in O.B.C) is less toxic than a powerful anabolic oral steroid??

And why then do steroids have the ‘stereotype’ if you will, of screwing up your hormones no matter the age-but especially in young adults like me- but birth control does not? I mean some girls start birth control when they’re only 13! That has to screw some shit up in respect to long term hormonal damage. I’ve read articles of women having problems menstruating and normal body function after 5, 10, or even 15+ years of taking B.C. Which is totally understandable.

Because if a man does a cycle of steroids even 5 years, I would have no doubt that they would have done permanent lasting damage done, and would then have to rely on test replacement for the rest of their life. Now if anybody would know an answer to these questions, I would very much so like a response. I am currently enrolled in college taking my pre-med courses. And am aspiring to be a medical doctor so I am not ignorant to these types of discussions and would like legitimate answers, Thank you.

  1. Why would an oral steroid be any more toxic than an oral birth control, and is O.B.C double methylated? And if not, then why?
  2. Why is there stigma around steroids and not birth control of causing lasting damage, even with a 6-8 week cycle, when women take B.C. for 10 years plus?

1 more bit of info…
I’m currently 5’8" and 175 pounds. I got my bench up to 315 naturally and my squat to 420 when I was 17. After my best cycle of pro-hormones, my max 1 rep bench was 375 and my squat was around 500 (Given I never maxed out on squat nor did major strength promoting workouts for my legs. I focused on my size) And I was 185 pounds and around 11 percent body fat. I am just looking to get back and a lot ahead of what I lost after not working out for 3 months after my last football season and want to keep as many gains as possible. I’ve been working out for about 3 months again and just feel like its time to get my body back.[/quote]

So you have basically broke every powerlifting record for the 198 weight class at the 16-18 age group huh??? I bet you did I bet it was ass to the grass too


#5

Stop readin after the first paragraph. I love the mentality of teenagers


#6

@Reed look me up on you tube. Type in Conor Haas benching 265. Should be the first one to come up. I was only 14 at the time and definitely wasnt 198 pounds. Idc if you people believe me or not anyway that isn’t the point of this forum. I just needed some experienced advice but you people, except for 1 person, are too simple minded to give me an answer. Thanks for wasting my time and proving how invaluable most peoples opinions are on ANYTHING. WOW


#7

[quote]A_Boss wrote:
@Reed look me up on you tube. Type in Conor Haas benching 265. Should be the first one to come up. I was only 14 at the time and definitely wasnt 198 pounds. Idc if you people believe me or not anyway that isn’t the point of this forum. I just needed some experienced advice but you people, except for 1 person, are too simple minded to give me an answer. Thanks for wasting my time and proving how invaluable most peoples opinions are on ANYTHING. WOW[/quote]

Just some words of advice… One I am still learning myself and definitely have listened to the vets, so I can’t offer much to your original post. Now the problem is, you’re too young and the vets here will not look past that so its going to be hard to get the answer you may want. I can see walkway coming in here and addressing your age but I can see him answering your question on BC vs Gear… Looks like someone already provided some info with a dosage answer. I’m actually interested to see who else can provide some insight to the OP.


#8

[quote]A_Boss wrote:
@Reed look me up on you tube. Type in Conor Haas benching 265. Should be the first one to come up. I was only 14 at the time and definitely wasnt 198 pounds. Idc if you people believe me or not anyway that isn’t the point of this forum. I just needed some experienced advice but you people, except for 1 person, are too simple minded to give me an answer. Thanks for wasting my time and proving how invaluable most peoples opinions are on ANYTHING. WOW[/quote]

Sounds like you’ve been taking the birth control pills, geeez!


#9

The fact that you ask this question and you want to be a Dr worries me. Search medical journals/textbooks, find out about the compounds in depth and draw your own conclusions.

And don’t do the cycle, wait until you’re a fully qualified Dr. You will be ready physically and mentally.


#10

[quote]A_Boss wrote:
@Reed look me up on you tube. Type in Conor Haas benching 265. Should be the first one to come up. I was only 14 at the time and definitely wasnt 198 pounds. Idc if you people believe me or not anyway that isn’t the point of this forum. I just needed some experienced advice but you people, except for 1 person, are too simple minded to give me an answer. Thanks for wasting my time and proving how invaluable most peoples opinions are on ANYTHING. WOW[/quote]

You just revealed your real name in a thread in which you stated your intention to use illegal anabolic steroids.


#11

Nope. First 3 mins…


#12

I think it’s safe to say that at 18… you don’t really know what you want out of life. I would hold off on the aas and ph’s until you are a little older… with each cycle, you damage your hpta… unless you are comfortable making a lifelong commitment to the needle… I would think things through a bit more


#13

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that at 18… you don’t really know what you want out of life. I would hold off on the aas and ph’s until you are a little older… with each cycle, you damage your hpta… unless you are comfortable making a lifelong commitment to the needle… I would think things through a bit more[/quote]
How do you know that with each cycle, you are permanently damaging your hpta? The pituitary gland responds not only to negative feedback, but also positive feedback. Once I was off cycle of my prohormones, my natural test levels were low, therefore, my hpta should respond to that to produce more FSH and LH ‘Positive feedback’. Cancelling out the month where it was lowering those same levels by ‘negative feedback’ because of unnatural suspension of androgens. Even though experience is better than education in most cases, this concept requires somebody who has taken courses on the endocrine system. I just don’t understand why after months of being off of a steroid/ph, ones body would not want to reach the same state of homeostasis it was once at. None of you are telling me about scientific evidence, you are just stating what you think is happening but not going beyond that. You must state why you are correct and why your body will not bounce back to its normal functions once off of a steroid/ph cycle. No offence to anybody on here, but I highly doubt any of you know what you are talking about anyway. Unless you can back it up with an explanation, you are talking out of your asses. I came here with an open mind and expected helpful advice on people who I thought would know more than me. But clearly it was just the opposite. Ive actually taken biology classes, I’ve actually read and studied medical text books, Ive actually done research online. But yet im naïve and have no clue what im talking about. Lol… I just do not get why people have to be so stubborn


#14

Lets see, when I was 25 I had blood work done. Total T was in the 700s ng/dl, not just once but on multiple occasions. Now almost 4 years later and many cycles later, my total T is around 405 ng/dl, again on multiple tests. Coincidence??

This all with proper run cycles.

Since “we” don’t know what we are talking about, why are you asking us if you’re so intelligent with all your courses and textbooks you should know already.

Go get bloods, run your cycle, get more bloods and repeat and see how it goes

No one will give you helpful advice with your 18 year old know-it-all douche attitude


#15

[quote]A_Boss wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that at 18… you don’t really know what you want out of life. I would hold off on the aas and ph’s until you are a little older… with each cycle, you damage your hpta… unless you are comfortable making a lifelong commitment to the needle… I would think things through a bit more[/quote]
How do you know that with each cycle, you are permanently damaging your hpta? The pituitary gland responds not only to negative feedback, but also positive feedback. Once I was off cycle of my prohormones, my natural test levels were low, therefore, my hpta should respond to that to produce more FSH and LH ‘Positive feedback’. Cancelling out the month where it was lowering those same levels by ‘negative feedback’ because of unnatural suspension of androgens. Even though experience is better than education in most cases, this concept requires somebody who has taken courses on the endocrine system. I just don’t understand why after months of being off of a steroid/ph, ones body would not want to reach the same state of homeostasis it was once at. None of you are telling me about scientific evidence, you are just stating what you think is happening but not going beyond that. You must state why you are correct and why your body will not bounce back to its normal functions once off of a steroid/ph cycle. No offence to anybody on here, but I highly doubt any of you know what you are talking about anyway. Unless you can back it up with an explanation, you are talking out of your asses. I came here with an open mind and expected helpful advice on people who I thought would know more than me. But clearly it was just the opposite. Ive actually taken biology classes, I’ve actually read and studied medical text books, Ive actually done research online. But yet im naÃ?¯ve and have no clue what im talking about. Lol… I just do not get why people have to be so stubborn[/quote]

science and reality often conflict… this is why science is constantly being updated… there is so much that we still have yet to understand.

what the textbook says doesn’t always reflect what happens in the real world… that’s great that you read though


#16

No one will give you helpful advice with your 18 year old know-it-all douche attitude

Woooooooohhhh! And that my friends was the bottom line. Bro I played sports at the D-I level and then at the pro level for two years. I made the mistake of 2 cycles in college and paid the price bigtime. Now I have to take test to feel normal.

I thought I was smarter than everyone when I was 18 too, but hey it’s your body to ruin. These forums are so those of us who don’t know can learn from those who do.

Good luck either way


#17

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Lets see, when I was 25 I had blood work done. Total T was in the 700s ng/dl, not just once but on multiple occasions. Now almost 4 years later and many cycles later, my total T is around 405 ng/dl, again on multiple tests. Coincidence??

This all with proper run cycles.

Since “we” don’t know what we are talking about, why are you asking us if you’re so intelligent with all your courses and textbooks you should know already.

Go get bloods, run your cycle, get more bloods and repeat and see how it goes

No one will give you helpful advice with your 18 year old know-it-all douche attitude [/quote]

Woooooohhhh! Bottom line.

I played D-I ball and then 2 years in the pros. The I ran in college and the andro I took(bfore it was on the banned list) have completely ruined my natural T production.

Hope it works better for you, but unless you are the lone exception, it probably won’t.

Not trying to be a hater but these forums are so that those of us who don’t know alot can learn from those who do.

Good luck either way


#18

sorry for the repeat had a computer glitch


#19

I dont knw about every one else but when I YouTube or google your name all I get some retard singing Numa Numa.


#20

[quote]A_Boss wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I think it’s safe to say that at 18… you don’t really know what you want out of life. I would hold off on the aas and ph’s until you are a little older… with each cycle, you damage your hpta… unless you are comfortable making a lifelong commitment to the needle… I would think things through a bit more[/quote]
How do you know that with each cycle, you are permanently damaging your hpta? The pituitary gland responds not only to negative feedback, but also positive feedback. Once I was off cycle of my prohormones, my natural test levels were low, therefore, my hpta should respond to that to produce more FSH and LH ‘Positive feedback’. Cancelling out the month where it was lowering those same levels by ‘negative feedback’ because of unnatural suspension of androgens. Even though experience is better than education in most cases, this concept requires somebody who has taken courses on the endocrine system. I just don’t understand why after months of being off of a steroid/ph, ones body would not want to reach the same state of homeostasis it was once at. None of you are telling me about scientific evidence, you are just stating what you think is happening but not going beyond that. You must state why you are correct and why your body will not bounce back to its normal functions once off of a steroid/ph cycle. No offence to anybody on here, but I highly doubt any of you know what you are talking about anyway. Unless you can back it up with an explanation, you are talking out of your asses. I came here with an open mind and expected helpful advice on people who I thought would know more than me. But clearly it was just the opposite. Ive actually taken biology classes, I’ve actually read and studied medical text books, Ive actually done research online. But yet im naÃ?¯ve and have no clue what im talking about. Lol… I just do not get why people have to be so stubborn[/quote]

Well everyone I know including myself who started definitely killed their test production, but go ahead at 18 and think you know it all with some wikipedia reading of the endocrine system. And no you don’t know what you are talking about or you wouldn’t be here asking us “stubborn” people for advice. Take the dianabol, but honestly I would recommend test over it.