T Nation

Cycle Advice

I have posted before that I have experienced gyno in the past and want to stay away from anythign that aromatizes. After doing some research I found the best to be 50-100 mgs of stanozol stacked with 75-125 mgs of oxandrolone. Any opinions as to if this will be very effective? The only thing I am worrying about is that they are both 17-AA steroids and therefore may be very hard on the liver.

I forgot to add some stuff. I am 28 yrs old, 6’0 225 lbs. I have been training for about 5-6 years ago. I have taken 2 cycles one a year ago, the other 2 years ago. The first consisted of test E and d-bol, the other Test E and oral winny.

did you use anti-e’s? If not, that is the reason for your gyno problems. So, then you do not have gyno problems, you have cycle construction problems.

JT said it politely.
You have cycle construction problems…

I’ll say it rudely:
That cycle really really sucks ass, and you obviously haven’t done any reading about planning a proper cycle or you wouldn’t have asked this question.

The winstrol and anavar will most likely give you nothing the way you have your cycle set up. If you do it, you’ll be wasting your money.

So read the steroid newbie thread and read all the resources on this website too.

I did use anti-e’s, novaldex throughout and clomid post. So throw the bad construction of a cycle out the window. I got all of my advice from this website. Second the cycle I posted cam from an article on this site called:Steroid for Dummies - Anabolic Basics for Beginners by Cy Wilson. One of the stacks listed was Stanozol and Oxandrolone. So if you bashing me, you are also bashing the writer of the article.

ever try arimidex or femera?

Jason what are you goals? What about doing a tren/winny cycle?

Winny and Oxandrolone stacked together wouldn’t be a waste, my roomate is on that now, 40mgs of each a day = 560mgs a week, which isn’t that bad.

He is overweight though and is just using them to keep his lbm and strength up while losing as much fat as possible. It’s working well for him. Not a good mass stack, but it just depends on your goals.

By the way, Oxandrolone isn’t cheap. It runs about 70-100$ for 500mgs and those are Tijuana prices, so probably double that for what you would pay in the states.

You may be better off and pay much less with a solid anti-e protocol and using test plus deca, dbol, or eq.

Jason, you mentioned what you were taking in the past which MIGHT have led to your gyno, but you never listed quantities. Where you taking 500mg of Test per week, or taking 5000mg? No one here knows.

I was going to suggest the possibility of lowering your Test intake, but like I said, I don’t know how much you were taking. I’d stack it with some Fina/Tren. You could also add in the Winny if you still wish, instead of D-bol (like you did in your previous cycle, but could have also led to your problem). The Anavar is WAY too expensive. Personally speaking, the returns just aren’t good enough for the money you pay for that stuff.

As it’s said time and time again here, we all have different sensitivities to estrogen and the conversion of. How much Nolva were you taking? Maybe it wasn’t enough. You could also try some Arimidex, which was already suggested. Good luck.

O.k enough is enough! your wasting your money on this stack - both winny and anavar are class 2 androgens, you want to stack a class 1 with a class 2 so take winny and stack it with some tren or primo or both! If I was you I would get some nolvadex, femara or arimidex and add a litte test into the mix, but thats just me. Simple stack:

Testosterone Enntate 500/wk (1000 front)
Winstrol 75 mg ed (oral)or 50mg ed IM
Tren 75 mg ed
novadex on 20 mg per day
or femara 2.5mcg per day

use nolvadex or clomid post cycle for recovery

Simple! enough eh?

What about prop. instead of enanth. for a cutting cycle? Looks like may be a good cutting cycle for me later down the road after some time off the gear.
Oh, BTW I have lightened my loads up a bit and been hitting reps in the range of 8-10 and my joints feel MUCH better.
Thanks for all your advice. You know your shit.

Is it just me, or does anyone else agree that increased water retention DOES NOT HAPPEN comparing use of a longer chained ester as opposed to a short one.

I’ve heard this from many different sources, but because I’ve never used prop, I don’t know. Test is Test, and aromatization is aromatization, and E2 is E2! So why would there be more water retention just because there’s a couple more carbon molecules attached to the androgen???

good question and I think two things ring out here #1 water retention isn’t fat, and #2 test is test and if you keep a steady level in your body you can expect aromatization, some tests are cleaner also then others, so you may get an enantate that causes less aromatization/estrogen than a propinate that has some estradiol in it… you never know. However if you use plenty of nolva or an aromatase inhibitor, this will cut down on some of the water retention, and also 500mg per week isn’t alot and on a cutting cycle you can even use less - say 250 or 200 mg a week - just enough to keep the equipment in operating condition - thats all the test is for on this cycle!

Thank you prisoner. I talked to my guy and he can now get arimidex. In the past the only thing he could get was nolvadex and that didn’t do me much good. Maybe it was fake, but I doubt he would do that to me. The cycle of test/winn/tren does sound like a good one.

My goals right now are just to put on some more size. Right now I am 6’0 225 at around 10-12% bodyfat. I would like to be around 235-240 at around the same bf %.