T Nation

Cycle Advice for Optimal Synergy

Any experienced aas users out there? Need advice

I’m about to start my 4th cycle and just wanted to see why you think about it, when to start pct and at which point to take the Dbol for best synergetic effects.
Beginning? 3-4 weeks in?

Cycle will be about 14-16w
Part 1
Test e - week 1 100mg mon & thurs (200mg)

  • week 2-10 200mg mon & thurs (400mg)
    Tren e - week 1 50mg mon/wed/fri (150mg)
  • week 2-8 75mg mon/wed/fri (225mg)
    Deca - week 1 100mg mon & thurs (200mg)
  • weeks 2-10 200mg mon &thurs (400mg)
    Dbol - week 1 10mg p/d (70mg)
  • week 2 10mg am & pm (140mg)
  • week 3-5 10mg 3xp/d (210mg)
  • week 6 10mg am & pm (140mg)
  • week 7 10mg p/d (70mg)
    Part 2
    Test p - week 10-16 200mg mon&thur (400mg)
    Stanazolol - week 8-16
  • week 8 - 10mg 2xp/d. (140mg)
  • week 9 - 10mg 3xp/d (210mg)
  • week 10-14 - 10mg 4xp/d (280mg)
  • week 15 - 10mg 3xp/d (210mg)
  • week 16 - 10mg 2xp/d (140mg)
    Deca weeks 10-16 150mg mon & thurs (350mg)
    Tren A - weeks 8-16 75mg mon, wed, thurs (225mg)

Will be taking 2.5mg letrozole e/d for 13 weeks then running hCG 250iu for a month
(I’d start with hCG but can’t get it at the moment and have bulk lettys left). And maybe some Nolvadex? (You think I’d need it too?)

So my questions are - when is the optimal time to start the Dbol? At the beginning for a boost? At the end for a bang? Or after 28 days so the deca/tren/test synergy starts peaking?
All seem to have pros and cons.

About me-
I’m 6’2”. 98kg with a ‘covid gut’.
Goal - Looking to slightly bulk but mainly harden up and lose fat. Will be dieting harder (already eat good).
Training - Usually train an hour ea muscle group/superset 5-6 days a week. Been training since 2000 (and got diploma of fitness in 03)

Side effects-
Luckily I’m not prone to gyno, rage, low sex drive, hair loss, back acne etc. I get a bit more shoulder small pimples due to extra oil. Slightly thicker hair on stomach and upper arms…
BUT I do “occasionally” get the tren night sweats pretty hard (but only like 3-4 times a week lol) hahaha But that’s tren for ya. (SOO worth it though) Haha
Also, last time I was banging 600mg of tren a week for like 14weeks. AND didn’t do any pct until the end (like a true fuckwit). So I was prepared for heavy sides due to tren being the strongest of the gears and not running ai’s or serms.

What do you guys think? (Cycle & PCT)

  • is an AI alone enough to run whole cycle until hCG at end?

What’s the optimal time to introduce Dbol?
A- straight away
B - after 28 days (test/deca/tren synergy) or
C - some other time?

I love the tren/test/deca combo (even with heavy tren sides) but didn’t want to go as hardcore as last time (800mg test, 600mg tren, 600mg deca, 60mg stanazol etc) but I did put on a lot of size on that but also had to run hCG and nolvadex for months after coz it killed my test production (I didn’t PCT enough for a 2gram a week cycle). 🤦*♂️ #dickhead

Thanks for any USEFUL info :pray:t4:

Please no

1 Like

I don’t think of deca & dbol as hardening drugs, more for size & strength. I think you’ve got two different cycles here kinda mashed into one.

Maybe you could do a real bulk with test/deca/dbol, cruise for 4-6 weeks, then harden up with test/tren/var. just a thought that might have more clearly defined goals/results

Yeah bro, that’s exactly what I’m doing.
Stage one is ‘size and strength’ with the Dbol/test/deca plus maximising anabolic synergy with the combo of (another19 nor), which is giving that ‘lean muscle’ that stays around (no puff). And then stage 2 just “hardening” up for the end stack (test/tren/stan) and I’ve got heaps of joint problems so the deca stops all joint pains when on a cycle. It’s heaven.
My question (other than pct recommendations) is when is it optimal to introduce the Dbol? It used to always be run at the beginning but then they found out about synergy with combined aas and adding different compounds at times when peak saturation is attained (usually about 14-40 days depending on compounds). So now they say it’s better to do Dbol after a month on the test/tren/deca cocktail to get way more results from your Dbol. So just was hoping to hear people that have tried it and how it rates to starting from week one.

That’s why I’m asking.
What would you suggest? AI/SERM or both?
Intervals? Staggered? Together?
Any info would help out
I now know not to run letrozole that long.
Thanks

Yeah I just got a little confused reading the layout, makes more sense after looking at it a few times.

I don’t see any Caber or P5P for the tren/deca combo? Do you generally not have to worry about high prolactin?

As far as PCT I’d wait for the longest ester to clear then start 4-6 weeks of Nolva 40/40/20/20. I never used HCG to bridge into that but some do, 3 weeks of 500iu EOD.

Dbol I ran (along with Anadrol) to kickstart my cycles, first 30 days. I’ve seen good arguments for adding them at the end tho.

Is Letro all you can get for AI? It’s so strong, and you’re not using a super high dose of test (dbol has high e2 probability, but not enough for daily AI use, at least at full strength). And if you have joint problems you want to keep that e2 on the higher side. I wouldn’t take any AI starting out, and introduce it slowly, like once or twice a week, tops.

I’ve done all the compounds you’re doing, just never all together like this (test/mast/tren was my choice) so can’t comment on the synergy.

Hope it works out tho :+1:

Yeah that was my initial thoughts

Your brain is going to turn into salad dressing. Letro absolutely nukes e2. E2 is neuroprotective. Tren is neurotoxic.

The cycle layout doesn’t make a lot of sense, though I kind of get what you’re going for. You’ve over complicated a relatively simple thing and for the life of me I don’t know how to fix it. There are a number of basic rules that science dictates should be followed and you’ve broken like three or four of them. We’ll ignore one because you’ve got experience with it (combining nandrolone and tren). If you have joint pain then stanozolol is the absolute last drug you’d land on. Combining it with nandrolone doesn’t actually cancel out the damage, it actually makes it worse. Without getting into it the 5th grade version is that the increase in collagen is way too rapid and it results in really brittle tendons. But you don’t feel it the way you should because the nand is covering it up, so you think you’re still ok. And that’s how you tear something and end up sidelined for three months. If the goal is hardening at the end then use either mast or even anavar. Both will do more with less damage to your joints and way less risk of injury.

1 Like

Yeah sweet dude!
I knew letrozole was a very hard drug even at 2.5mg and was going to just go once a week but then I read somewhere else that that’s the dose for cancer and bodybuilding needs to be like 5-7.5g a DAY! I’m I’m just like, whoa! Isn’t that like crazy shit? Hahaha Thanks for clearing that up.I’ll do it once a week :wink:

Yeah I was prone to some prolactin on my last cycle but that was the 2g a week cycle with zero pct. I honestly can’t remember why I didn’t run anything. Oh, all the sites were out and I was on mailing lists for when they came back in. There’s only 1-2 sites to get stuff from in Australia so it’s fucked. Used to be like 10 but they’re all shut down. And I had to try a new site and got ripped off with 100x fake 20mg nolvadex and 100x fake letrozole.
That’s why I had bad prolactin (combined with the 800mg of test, 600 tren and 600 deca for 16weeks).

Yeah sorry about the lay out lol
Bit confusing how I did it.

Caber I can’t get anymore. And I’m waiting to hear when nolva and hCG is back in stock (might get it a month into the cycle or something).

So you reckon Dbol in the beginning (like the traditional way to take it), yeah?
At least I know for a fact that Dbol works great I’m the beginning, so it was a 50/50 if I start immediately or wait for my tren/test/deca levels to spike then Dbol (but I’ve only ever read this on paper). Never known anyone that done it so thought I’d ask.

If I don’t know something 100% I’d rather ask heaps of questions then fuck something up (especially heavy shit like let).

Thanks dude!

Nothing wrong with that. If you’ve got experience with it and you know how to manage any potential e2 issues then it’s a great drug.

So many guys have huge egos and won’t ask questions. I don’t quite get why, but it’s a thing. Glad to see you’re not like those boneheads.

1 Like

I’ve done a lot of research over the past 18yrs into the science behind each compound and it’s effects on the body/combinations/cycle strategies (even got my diploma in fitness and very 3 in nutrition and rehab just to understand the body more) and I STILL don’t know everything. Never will either as there are new studies each day contradicting previous (traditional) cycles.
My body is more important to me than my ego.
So if I don’t know, I’ll ask.
And thanks for the info bro.
MUCH appreciated!

1 Like