T Nation

Cycle Advice & Best Protocols


#1

Hey, Im a new user to the forums so firstly forgive me if I say or do something that isn't allowed !

Secondly I appreciate all feedback, I'm posting this tread to receive quality opinions (I hope)

I'm about to begin my 6th cycle and just wondering what would be best protocol.

I have all phrama grade gear and my source is 100% reliable ! My goal is to add serious mass but by doing it in the safest approach possible. My experience with gear is very positive, I've kept my safest approach possible with every cycle.

Previous cycles:

1) Anavar - 6 weeks
2) Test e - 10 weeks
3) Test e w/ Dbol (4weeks) - 12 weeks
4) test c w/ tren - 15 weeks
5) test c w/ tren - 15 weeks

Now ill begin something epic....

HGH 4iu's ED - 6months +
Test cup (500mg) - 1-10 weeks
Deca (400mg) - 1-10 weeks
DBol 25mg ED - 1-4 weeks
Test e (500mg) - 10-15 weeks
EQ (400) - 10-15 weeks

So what do y'all think about this cycle ? Opinions and advice PLEASE

NEXT...

PCT During + After

I have already for during

HCG
Nolva
Armidex

Now this is where I'm confused :(... So many different approaches with what is best way to take and do, I was thinking

nothing for first 5 weeks then,

Armidex EOD .5
Nolva ED 10mg
HCG (Im not sure at all really) BUT twice a week

Can you please help me with this, also I hope to get a nice discussion about all this going :slightly_smiling:

Looking forward to hearing for you


#2

[quote]t_trains wrote:
Hey, Im a new user to the forums so firstly forgive me if I say or do something that isn’t allowed !

Secondly I appreciate all feedback, I’m posting this tread to receive quality opinions (I hope)

I’m about to begin my 6th cycle and just wondering what would be best protocol.

I have all phrama grade gear and my source is 100% reliable ! My goal is to add serious mass but by doing it in the safest approach possible. My experience with gear is very positive, I’ve kept my safest approach possible with every cycle.

Previous cycles:

  1. Anavar - 6 weeks
  2. Test e - 10 weeks
  3. Test e w/ Dbol (4weeks) - 12 weeks
  4. test c w/ tren - 15 weeks
  5. test c w/ tren - 15 weeks

Now ill begin something epic…

HGH 4iu’s ED - 6months +
Test cup (500mg) - 1-10 weeks
Deca (400mg) - 1-10 weeks
DBol 25mg ED - 1-4 weeks
Test e (500mg) - 10-15 weeks
EQ (400) - 10-15 weeks

So what do y’all think about this cycle ? Opinions and advice PLEASE

NEXT…

PCT During + After

I have already for during

HCG
Nolva
Armidex

Now this is where I’m confused :(… So many different approaches with what is best way to take and do, I was thinking

nothing for first 5 weeks then,

Armidex EOD .5
Nolva ED 10mg
HCG (Im not sure at all really) BUT twice a week

Can you please help me with this, also I hope to get a nice discussion about all this going :slight_smile:

Looking forward to hearing for you
[/quote]

you’ve done 6 cycles and don’t know how to do PCT?


#3

^lol

EQ has to be run a lot longer and at a higher dose. EQ should be run about 12-14 weeks… you stop it 2 weeks before you stop your test so when you PCT both EQ and test are out of system… So…

WK 1-12 EQ 600mg
WK 1-14 TEST-E 500mg

…Something like that basically.

Amazed you have 6 cycles and don’t know how to PCT…

Adex should be run whole cycle up to PCT… 0.25mg/eod and taper up if needed. Nolva should begin 2 weeks after last test injection. Run it 4-6 weeks (I would run 6 because of how long your cycle is)… Dosage depends some say 20 for 6 weeks is fine, others say run 40 first 2 weeks and 20 for remainder. I haven’t run HCG and I don’t know much about it so I will let someone else chime in.


#4

Of course I know about PCT… Every cycle i had a successful PCT and I’m well aware of different methods

What I’m asking is can you suggest a great not good approach to the cycle I’m thinking of running… thanks for the reply but bro this isn’t joking around stuff


#5

I understand EQ is a long ester but what I’ve been advised by very experienced user is to switch compounds so for example deca for 10 weeks and then run EQ for 5 rather then deca for 10 weeks

I do know about PCT normally I would do…

PCT :-

HCG would be pinned once a week for last 5 weeks of cycle approx 1000iu

Nolva 40/40/20/20/10
Clomid 50/50/25/25 (Last week id cut climbed)


#6

Based on how you believe you should start adex and nolva 5 weeks in really shows you lack a very basic understanding of a proper AAS cycle.

What is test cup? Did you mean cyp? If you did mean cyp why would you switch between cyp and e lol?

Also EQ will have no effect in 5 weeks.

You’d get better results from just running HGH for 6 months than you would from this mess of a cycle.


#7

[quote]t_trains wrote:
Of course I know about PCT… Every cycle i had a successful PCT and I’m well aware of different methods

What I’m asking is can you suggest a great not good approach to the cycle I’m thinking of running… thanks for the reply but bro this isn’t joking around stuff[/quote]

no, you don’t know what you’re doing.

read the link i posted for you.


#8

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Based on how you believe you should start adex and nolva 5 weeks in really shows you lack a very basic understanding of a proper AAS cycle.

What is test cup? Did you mean cyp? If you did mean cyp why would you switch between cyp and e lol?

Also EQ will have no effect in 5 weeks.

You’d get better results from just running HGH for 6 months than you would from this mess of a cycle.
[/quote]

Ok nooberific, Well is there any links you could send me ? Could you help me with this ?

I meant test cyp (Spell checker put cup)

Changing test is just to change the ester, even doe there is little difference people say its good to switch ester on longer cycles. If you think staying on test cyp would be better could you explain ?

Also putting EQ in at week 10 to 15 is only suggestion ! I haven’t started yet so I can just run test+deca for 10 or 12 or 15 weeks or I could add another compound. Again any suggestions ?

Really appreciate your input, I’m looking for advice, help and to continue learning !

Thank you nooberific


#9

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]t_trains wrote:
Of course I know about PCT… Every cycle i had a successful PCT and I’m well aware of different methods

What I’m asking is can you suggest a great not good approach to the cycle I’m thinking of running… thanks for the reply but bro this isn’t joking around stuff[/quote]

no, you don’t know what you’re doing.

read the link i posted for you.[/quote]

Thank you for the link ! Interesting stuff, I tried to read the references but can only get the abstract.

So I understand that both Clomid and nolva are SERMs. Since Clomid decreases Luteinizing hormone which affects our LHRH, why would I choose this ? I do have access to Nolva and never experienced bad sides from using it.

Since I’ll be running deca and this really does shut you down your suggesting running Nolva for 12 weeks @ 60mg ED

Would you add in an AI (to help with aromatization) for during cycle or my PCT ?

Also could you help me with running a SERM throughout my cycle. I just what to keep the negative sides minimum

Again really appreciate your input ! Thanks for the link and I hope you can advise me further

Have a good day cycobushmaster :slight_smile:


#10

There is no point in switching compounds and esters unless you are preparing for a show. You can just up the dose at week 8 or 10.

What are your stats?


#11

[quote]t_trains wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]t_trains wrote:
Of course I know about PCT… Every cycle i had a successful PCT and I’m well aware of different methods

What I’m asking is can you suggest a great not good approach to the cycle I’m thinking of running… thanks for the reply but bro this isn’t joking around stuff[/quote]

no, you don’t know what you’re doing.

read the link i posted for you.[/quote]

Thank you for the link ! Interesting stuff, I tried to read the references but can only get the abstract.

So I understand that both Clomid and nolva are SERMs. Since Clomid decreases Luteinizing hormone which affects our LHRH, why would I choose this ? I do have access to Nolva and never experienced bad sides from using it.

Since I’ll be running deca and this really does shut you down your suggesting running Nolva for 12 weeks @ 60mg ED

Would you add in an AI (to help with aromatization) for during cycle or my PCT ?

Also could you help me with running a SERM throughout my cycle. I just what to keep the negative sides minimum

Again really appreciate your input ! Thanks for the link and I hope you can advise me further

Have a good day cycobushmaster :)[/quote]

Did you actually read the link?


#12

I think we should start a trend on here, when someone just clearly doesn’t get the basics, despite being given every opportunity to, and just shut them out completely, don’t answer their questions and isolate them until they leave. it would help weed out some bullshit. I don’t know everything, far from it, but I would like to think that if one went into my post history and found questions asked by me, in the future I would show better knowledge of the subject, or at the least, effort made.

anyway…aside from having done “6 cycles” and not understanding PCT- and don’t say you do, because if you did you’d have no questions in regards to PCT- you don’t understand EQ, you were told why using EQ in the way you suggested is worthless, then you solidified your lack of understanding with your response.

I’ll try to explain it again- Deca and EQ are not the same thing. “switching” from Deca to EQ doesn’t make ANY sense. EQ is known to take weeks to build in your system to even start showing effects. running it for 5 weeks is pointless- by the time it would start kicking in, you’d be coming off of it. It will not simply pick up where the Deca left off because they are not the same fucking compound. You could switch from Test Cyp to Test E and have the E essentially pick up where the C left off because they are the same compound with very similar esters. Switching from Deca to EQ is not the same situation!

I’m still shocked that among your cycles you have 2 of Test and Tren and don’t have a rock solid knowledge of PCT.


#13

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]t_trains wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]t_trains wrote:
Of course I know about PCT… Every cycle i had a successful PCT and I’m well aware of different methods

What I’m asking is can you suggest a great not good approach to the cycle I’m thinking of running… thanks for the reply but bro this isn’t joking around stuff[/quote]

no, you don’t know what you’re doing.

read the link i posted for you.[/quote]

Thank you for the link ! Interesting stuff, I tried to read the references but can only get the abstract.

So I understand that both Clomid and nolva are SERMs. Since Clomid decreases Luteinizing hormone which affects our LHRH, why would I choose this ? I do have access to Nolva and never experienced bad sides from using it.

Since I’ll be running deca and this really does shut you down your suggesting running Nolva for 12 weeks @ 60mg ED

Would you add in an AI (to help with aromatization) for during cycle or my PCT ?

Also could you help me with running a SERM throughout my cycle. I just what to keep the negative sides minimum

Again really appreciate your input ! Thanks for the link and I hope you can advise me further

Have a good day cycobushmaster :)[/quote]

Did you actually read the link?[/quote]

I did man honestly, I’m not going to say i did if i didn’t genuinely looking for help !

My Stats are:

age 25
Weight 195 lbs
Height 5’11
Years of training 5

Food wise: I stay away from diary and gluten (unless I’m having a cheat meal) I’d eat all fresh food, 4/5 meals a day. I carb-backload and introduce carbs pre workout

Training: yoga+pilates 3 times a week and at the moment I’m doing german body recomposition

Thanks for your input !


#14

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
I think we should start a trend on here, when someone just clearly doesn’t get the basics, despite being given every opportunity to, and just shut them out completely, don’t answer their questions and isolate them until they leave. it would help weed out some bullshit. I don’t know everything, far from it, but I would like to think that if one went into my post history and found questions asked by me, in the future I would show better knowledge of the subject, or at the least, effort made.

anyway…aside from having done “6 cycles” and not understanding PCT- and don’t say you do, because if you did you’d have no questions in regards to PCT- you don’t understand EQ, you were told why using EQ in the way you suggested is worthless, then you solidified your lack of understanding with your response.

I’ll try to explain it again- Deca and EQ are not the same thing. “switching” from Deca to EQ doesn’t make ANY sense. EQ is known to take weeks to build in your system to even start showing effects. running it for 5 weeks is pointless- by the time it would start kicking in, you’d be coming off of it. It will not simply pick up where the Deca left off because they are not the same fucking compound. You could switch from Test Cyp to Test E and have the E essentially pick up where the C left off because they are the same compound with very similar esters. Switching from Deca to EQ is not the same situation!

I’m still shocked that among your cycles you have 2 of Test and Tren and don’t have a rock solid knowledge of PCT. [/quote]

Don’t know what I did to annoy you but again thanks for your input, OK I know nothing about PCT could you help me ? Do you know a good protocol for the cycle I’m considering ?

I understand they are different compounds and slow esters. If you think that it worthless adding in EQ for only 5 weeks then I won’t do it !

Would you suggest I just stay on Deca for 10 weeks ? Or continue Deca until week 12 or 15 ?

Or add in EQ earlier ? What would you advise ?

Thanks for your input ! Im trying to gain from this and continuing to learn as I go, when you look through my post over time I’m sure you’ll see my knowledge grow :slight_smile:


#15

[quote]t_trains wrote:

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]t_trains wrote:
Of course I know about PCT… Every cycle i had a successful PCT and I’m well aware of different methods

What I’m asking is can you suggest a great not good approach to the cycle I’m thinking of running… thanks for the reply but bro this isn’t joking around stuff[/quote]

no, you don’t know what you’re doing.

read the link i posted for you.[/quote]

Thank you for the link ! Interesting stuff, I tried to read the references but can only get the abstract.

So I understand that both Clomid and nolva are SERMs. Since Clomid decreases Luteinizing hormone which affects our LHRH, why would I choose this ? I do have access to Nolva and never experienced bad sides from using it.

Since I’ll be running deca and this really does shut you down your suggesting running Nolva for 12 weeks @ 60mg ED

Would you add in an AI (to help with aromatization) for during cycle or my PCT ?

Also could you help me with running a SERM throughout my cycle. I just what to keep the negative sides minimum

Again really appreciate your input ! Thanks for the link and I hope you can advise me further

Have a good day cycobushmaster :)[/quote]

well, Clomid doesn’t decrease LH. it has been shown to decrease the LH response to GnRH. basically, it still raises LH, but it’s not as effective at doing so as other SERMs, and the desensitization issue in PCT can actually be quite bad.

using a SERM on cycle is not recommended, because it doesn’t manage estrogen, and it can actually increase some aromatization. AI’s will keep the estrogen in check, and are the better choice on cycle.

as far as dealing with deca, part of the side effects are due to the large increase in prolactin, and one needs to take something to manage that (cabergoline, bromocriptine, pramipexole…)


#16

yoga+pilates training?


#17

[quote]t_trains wrote:

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
I think we should start a trend on here, when someone just clearly doesn’t get the basics, despite being given every opportunity to, and just shut them out completely, don’t answer their questions and isolate them until they leave. it would help weed out some bullshit. I don’t know everything, far from it, but I would like to think that if one went into my post history and found questions asked by me, in the future I would show better knowledge of the subject, or at the least, effort made.

anyway…aside from having done “6 cycles” and not understanding PCT- and don’t say you do, because if you did you’d have no questions in regards to PCT- you don’t understand EQ, you were told why using EQ in the way you suggested is worthless, then you solidified your lack of understanding with your response.

I’ll try to explain it again- Deca and EQ are not the same thing. “switching” from Deca to EQ doesn’t make ANY sense. EQ is known to take weeks to build in your system to even start showing effects. running it for 5 weeks is pointless- by the time it would start kicking in, you’d be coming off of it. It will not simply pick up where the Deca left off because they are not the same fucking compound. You could switch from Test Cyp to Test E and have the E essentially pick up where the C left off because they are the same compound with very similar esters. Switching from Deca to EQ is not the same situation!

I’m still shocked that among your cycles you have 2 of Test and Tren and don’t have a rock solid knowledge of PCT. [/quote]

Don’t know what I did to annoy you but again thanks for your input, OK I know nothing about PCT could you help me ? Do you know a good protocol for the cycle I’m considering ?

I understand they are different compounds and slow esters. If you think that it worthless adding in EQ for only 5 weeks then I won’t do it !

Would you suggest I just stay on Deca for 10 weeks ? Or continue Deca until week 12 or 15 ?

Or add in EQ earlier ? What would you advise ?

Thanks for your input ! Im trying to gain from this and continuing to learn as I go, when you look through my post over time I’m sure you’ll see my knowledge grow :)[/quote]

Fuck deca. Run EQ for 12 weeks, test for 14, dbol for 4 And begin PCT 2 weeks after last test shot (if you are running 500mg of test). Easy simple cycle that should give nice solid gains.


#18

Ok, Being honest I do need to learn a lot more about the endocrine system and the effects of these drugs ! (Off subject but you write a lot, did you post any threads with more info on this for reading)

The AI I can get is Armidex, I have this already and was thinking of .25mg/EOD and adjusting as necessary.

I’ll look into cabergoline, bromocriptine, pramipexole now !

Thanks !!! Much appreciated


#19

[quote]nooberific wrote:

[quote]t_trains wrote:

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
I think we should start a trend on here, when someone just clearly doesn’t get the basics, despite being given every opportunity to, and just shut them out completely, don’t answer their questions and isolate them until they leave. it would help weed out some bullshit. I don’t know everything, far from it, but I would like to think that if one went into my post history and found questions asked by me, in the future I would show better knowledge of the subject, or at the least, effort made.

anyway…aside from having done “6 cycles” and not understanding PCT- and don’t say you do, because if you did you’d have no questions in regards to PCT- you don’t understand EQ, you were told why using EQ in the way you suggested is worthless, then you solidified your lack of understanding with your response.

I’ll try to explain it again- Deca and EQ are not the same thing. “switching” from Deca to EQ doesn’t make ANY sense. EQ is known to take weeks to build in your system to even start showing effects. running it for 5 weeks is pointless- by the time it would start kicking in, you’d be coming off of it. It will not simply pick up where the Deca left off because they are not the same fucking compound. You could switch from Test Cyp to Test E and have the E essentially pick up where the C left off because they are the same compound with very similar esters. Switching from Deca to EQ is not the same situation!

I’m still shocked that among your cycles you have 2 of Test and Tren and don’t have a rock solid knowledge of PCT. [/quote]

Don’t know what I did to annoy you but again thanks for your input, OK I know nothing about PCT could you help me ? Do you know a good protocol for the cycle I’m considering ?

I understand they are different compounds and slow esters. If you think that it worthless adding in EQ for only 5 weeks then I won’t do it !

Would you suggest I just stay on Deca for 10 weeks ? Or continue Deca until week 12 or 15 ?

Or add in EQ earlier ? What would you advise ?

Thanks for your input ! Im trying to gain from this and continuing to learn as I go, when you look through my post over time I’m sure you’ll see my knowledge grow :)[/quote]

Fuck deca. Run EQ for 12 weeks, test for 14, dbol for 4 And begin PCT 2 weeks after last test shot (if you are running 500mg of test). Easy simple cycle that should give nice solid gains.[/quote]

Bit of a problem I already have Deca (Alpha Phrama 250mg single amps) The guy won’t have EQ for another month or so…

Maybe run Deca for 10 weeks and then just test for the remaining 5 weeks ?
Or do you think combining another compound for the last 5 weeks would give me better results ?

I’m a Pilates and Yoga instructor so this is why they are apart of my training also excellent for core,balance, flexibility and mobility


#20

[quote]nooberific wrote:

Fuck deca. Run EQ for 12 weeks, test for 14, dbol for 4 And begin PCT 2 weeks after last test shot (if you are running 500mg of test). Easy simple cycle that should give nice solid gains.[/quote]

this seems pretty good.

since you’ve already ran test @500 twice, I would suggest:

Test E/C @750mg/wk 14 weeks
dbol first 4 weeks
EQ @600-800mg/wk first 12 weeks

Begin PCT week 16