Randy and John, I agree with you. In fact, I shot Tim Patterson an e-mail raising the same points. Cy obviously hasn’t tried a quality ecdy product. I could sense it from his article. In addition, his parroting of Brock’s “the Soviet studies HAD to work because if they didn’t the researchers would wind up in Siberia” arguement is disappointing and disturbing. I, like you, have 15+ years in the game and know a placebo effect from the real thing. Cy, if you’re reading this, please use this as constructive criticism. Instead of using “misinterpreted research”, heresay and the company line to support an article, use the ultimate test: Get some anabolica and use it yourself. BOTTOM LINE: The shit works and there are more people on this board that support that than not. Never forget: That is in fact, the ultimate test.