T Nation

Cutting: Test/Tren Finished with Mast

I posted a thread last week about a tri-blend of test/tren/mast but the sale ended before I could get my funding over to them and I missed out on the half price. The full price was more than I was willing to shell out for an entire cycle, so I decided to just run Test/Tren for 12 weeks and finish off with the tri-blend for the last 4.

1-12: 450 mg/week Test E (3x/week)
1-12: 300 mg/week Tren E (3x/week)
13-16: 250 mg/week Test P (daily)
13-16: 250 mg/week Tren A (daily)
13-16: 250 mg/week Mast P (daily)
1-16: 37.5 mg/week Aromasin (3x/week)
1-16: 750 iu/week HCG (3x/week)

No PCT since I am on TRT. Will just pick up with my TRT dose after the final week.

I’m not real crazy about running more test than tren, but the product is a blend of the two and that is the way their ratios worked out (300/200 mg/mL of each, respectively) so that’s what I’m going with. I didn’t have any of the nasty tren side effects last time running Tren A, so I’m hoping to avoid them this time as well with the Tren E.

Also realize the cycle is a bit long at 16 weeks, but there’s a good chance I will cut the 12 week period down to 8 before adding mast for the final 4. I don’t see the 16 weeks as an issue since suppression and recovery are not a concern. It will really depend on how motivated I am to continue on blast after the 8 week mark and how lean I am at that time.

Primary goal is loss of bodyfat while maintaining muscle mass and calories/cardio will be planned accordingly. Secondary goal will be slight strength increase, but that will be a function of my training–if it happens, great, otherwise I’m content with maintenance for 3-4 months.

Starting out at about 285 pounds and 16% bodyfat. Would really like to get into the 8-10% range this time around.

Starting the first week of January and will be logging periodically in here for anyone interested.

Feedback appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing how this works out for you. I remember you lost a lot of bodyfat the last time and the mast will probably have you looking nasty if you’re lean enough at the end.

Looks great, this will have you shredded, 16 weeks will work great at those doses.

Aromasin may be a little high for only 450mg/w of aromatizables.

Best of luck,
-PTD

Looking forward to this log. Ill be running a similar cycle in march

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
Looks great, this will have you shredded, 16 weeks will work great at those doses.

Aromasin may be a little high for only 450mg/w of aromatizables.

Best of luck,
-PTD
[/quote]

Thanks PTD. I’m hoping for good results.

As far as the Aromasin, that’s what I ran last year when I was running 350 mg/week of each Test/Tren and it worked out pretty well. In my bulk last summer (750 mg/week Test Cyp + 30 mg/day DBOL) I had to actually up my aromasin dose to around 75 mg/week (25 mg 3x/week) due to estrogen sides. I think I am really prone to them. Bloodwork confirmed the E2 was high on the summer bulk cycle.

I may end up only running the Test/Tren E for 10 weeks at 600/400 per week instead. Haven’t decided yet.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Looking forward to seeing how this works out for you. I remember you lost a lot of bodyfat the last time and the mast will probably have you looking nasty if you’re lean enough at the end. [/quote]

Thanks my man…yeah I was pretty happy with my results from my first cutting cycle. Hoping the addition of mast this time will really set things off.

[quote]SHREDTODEATH wrote:
Looking forward to this log. Ill be running a similar cycle in march[/quote]

No doubt. I’ll try to keep it up to date as long as I can rememebr haha.

Just placed my order today so going to be starting sometime in the next 7-10 business days haha.

Had to modify a bit due to product availability and decided to just go with the high Tren/low Test approach. I mentioned before I wasn’t too crazy about running higher test than tren, so this is more in line with what I wanted to do anyway.

Tren E will be 600 mg/week with Tren A kickstart, TRT dose of test, and the tri-blend last 4 weeks.

Weeks 1-3: Tren A (Taper 500/300/200)
Weeks 1-10: 200 mg/week Test Cyp (MWF)
Weeks 1-10: 600 mg/week Tren E (MWF)
Weeks 11-14: 250 mg/week Test P (daily)
Weeks 11-14: 250 mg/week Tren A (daily)
Weeks 11-14: 250 mg/week Mast P (daily)
Weeks 1-14: 37.5 mg/week Aromasin (MWF)
Weeks 1-14: 750 iu/week HCG (MWF)

Optional:
Weeks 5-xx: 50 ug/day T3
Weeks 5-xx: 80 ug/day Clen

I may or may not opt for the T3/Clen in Week 5, but will give myself at least 4 weeks to see the progress I make before deciding whether or not to use one or both.

Starting Stats:
-293 lbs
-15.4% Bodyfat (calipers)

Pretty excited.

Cool man looks awesome!

All i gotta say …Ur gunna be one big dude after this! best of luck

[quote]jimbopv123 wrote:
All i gotta say …Ur gunna be one big dude after this! best of luck [/quote]

He’s already huge at 293 lbs. This cycle is not going to make him (or anyone else) huge- because of the T3 and Clen.

This is actually pretty comparable to one of the last cycles I ran, I think I was running Tren @600mg/wk and Test at 200/250mg/wk and I only weighed 215ish when I started. Clen ramped up to 80mcg for only 2-3 weeks, and T3 was ultimately ramped up to 100-125mcg.

You have to run anabolics while on T3 for a reason. I lost a lot of fat, gained some muscle, but ultimately my strength remained unchanged…maybe ended up slightly higher. T3 is brutal. It might sound like it was a shitty cycle, but I looked completely different from where I had started- and that was the point. I only ran anabolics for the last 6 weeks of that 12 week program I set up for myself. I can’t remember my weight or bf% when I started the AS portion, but ultimately I lost 12% bodyfat and 25lbs during those 12 weeks.

Back on track, I wouldn’t run the clen for weeks at a time. I would do one week on/one week off and continue in that fashion. Well actually, I wouldn’t run clen ever again, but this is how I’ve seen most people run it. Or two weeks on/two weeks off, but never more than 2 weeks straight.

I an running a cyccle with Tren E/Test E.

I could NOT handle the higher test leves witht the Tren…I dropped the Test down and upped the Tren and have MUCH better results in terms of sides.

You might want to consider having Bromo/Prami on hand.

[quote]jimbopv123 wrote:
All i gotta say …Ur gunna be one big dude after this! best of luck [/quote]

haha thanks my man. Got high hopes with this one. Tren seems to do me better than test.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

This is actually pretty comparable to one of the last cycles I ran, I think I was running Tren @600mg/wk and Test at 200/250mg/wk and I only weighed 215ish when I started. Clen ramped up to 80mcg for only 2-3 weeks, and T3 was ultimately ramped up to 100-125mcg.

[/quote]

Yeah I read through your log while getting this one set up. Good info there. I ran T3 up to 100 ug for a few weeks on my last cutter and felt like a sack of wet dogshit. 75 ug was not as bad but still a bit lethargic. 50 seemed to be the sweet spot. I have no issues going up to 75 for a bit if needed, but should see good progress with 50 with the clean diet and higher tren I’m thinking.

[quote]
Back on track, I wouldn’t run the clen for weeks at a time. I would do one week on/one week off and continue in that fashion. Well actually, I wouldn’t run clen ever again, but this is how I’ve seen most people run it. Or two weeks on/two weeks off, but never more than 2 weeks straight. [/quote]

Yeah the plan is 2 on/2 off, I just didn’t mention it in my post. Though I’ve heard at least one big name diet coach recommend not coming off if the dose is fairly low (40 ug/day). The pain in the ass with 2/2 is the time you waste tapering up and down, if you choose to. I wouldn’t want to just jump up to 120 ug/day after not being on it for 2 weeks, so even increasing by 40 a day wastes 3 days of the 2 weeks (and more if you ramp down at the end).

I remeber you having problems with the clen. I kinda liked it when I ran it haha. It made me feel on edge and shit, and I liked the warm feeling in the cold months. Not sure if the “on edge” is a good thing with the higher Tren though haha

I’m hoping to just not even need either of them, but they’re there as my ace card if needed.

[quote]EFShadow wrote:
I an running a cyccle with Tren E/Test E.

I could NOT handle the higher test leves witht the Tren…I dropped the Test down and upped the Tren and have MUCH better results in terms of sides.

You might want to consider having Bromo/Prami on hand.[/quote]

Awesome man. What doses are you running at each? What were you at with the test before dropping it down?

Were the issues you were having just the standard “tren sides” of insomnia, night sweats, irritability, poor cardio, etc.? How have those improved with the changes?

I really don’t put a lot of stock in the progesteronegenic side effects of Tren. I believe Bill Roberts dismissed it as bro-myth, so I tend to stick with that. I have some caber or prami or some sort of dopamine antagonist on hand from a test run I was doing with it back a few months ago, so its there if I need it but I’m not expecting to use it.

[quote]Jagger wrote:

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

This is actually pretty comparable to one of the last cycles I ran, I think I was running Tren @600mg/wk and Test at 200/250mg/wk and I only weighed 215ish when I started. Clen ramped up to 80mcg for only 2-3 weeks, and T3 was ultimately ramped up to 100-125mcg.

[/quote]

Yeah I read through your log while getting this one set up. Good info there. I ran T3 up to 100 ug for a few weeks on my last cutter and felt like a sack of wet dogshit. 75 ug was not as bad but still a bit lethargic. 50 seemed to be the sweet spot. I have no issues going up to 75 for a bit if needed, but should see good progress with 50 with the clean diet and higher tren I’m thinking.

I just think albuterol may be the way to go. I’m going to run that for the first time along with T3 for my cycle starting at the end of this month and I’m anticipating it being far more mild, but we’ll see. I won’t run the T3 as high this time because I’m going to have a full 12 weeks. I’ll also be running a fair amount of EQ/Test E/Prop/Cyp, Var and then Prop/TrenA/Mast, Winny.

[quote]Jagger wrote:

[quote]EFShadow wrote:
I an running a cyccle with Tren E/Test E.

I could NOT handle the higher test leves witht the Tren…I dropped the Test down and upped the Tren and have MUCH better results in terms of sides.

You might want to consider having Bromo/Prami on hand.[/quote]

Awesome man. What doses are you running at each? What were you at with the test before dropping it down?

Were the issues you were having just the standard “tren sides” of insomnia, night sweats, irritability, poor cardio, etc.? How have those improved with the changes?

I really don’t put a lot of stock in the progesteronegenic side effects of Tren. I believe Bill Roberts dismissed it as bro-myth, so I tend to stick with that. I have some caber or prami or some sort of dopamine antagonist on hand from a test run I was doing with it back a few months ago, so its there if I need it but I’m not expecting to use it. [/quote]

I was initially at 400 mg tren and 500 mg test. The night sweats and insomnia were maddening. The lack of cardio also made it impossible to do anything beyond walking up a flight of stairs.

I added a bit of D-bol in in the evening and that helped the sides a bit, but it was dropping the test to 200 mg and bumping the tren to 600 mg per week that really helped the night sweats and cardio issues.

I also added Prami and worked UP to a dose of 0.75 mg over 8 or 9 days, and now the insomnia is non existent.

A-dex at 0.33 mg ED for water retention from the test/dbol.

Playing with T3 - FAST ramps up and down over 5 days.

My cycle was to harden and drop BF, not really to gain muscle, although that has been a nice side.

Best of luck!

[quote]EFShadow wrote:

I added a bit of D-bol in in the evening and that helped the sides a bit, but it was dropping the test to 200 mg and bumping the tren to 600 mg per week that really helped the night sweats and cardio issues.[/quote]

Cool that’s exactly where I am at right now.

[quote]

Playing with T3 - FAST ramps up and down over 5 days.[/quote]

You mind outlining your protocol here? I could guess but it would just be conjecture and not real beneficial since there are so many options. Are you saying you just stayed on for 5 days at a time though?

How far in are you? Or have you finished now? I’d love to hear the final results.

I started this cycle on the 14th of January so I am right about at the two week mark. Here is my recap so far.

I ended up not frontloading the Tren E, so started that at 600 mg (3x/week dosing) the first week. I opted for a Tren A kickstart, and took 450 mg (daily doses) the first week, 300 the second, and will finish off the bottle this coming week. Test is still my TRT dose of Test Cyp at 200 mg/week (2x/week dosing)

So far I have no negative side effects except for slightly decreased cardio (it wasn’t good to begin with) and a bit of irritability and shortness with people (mostly idiots). No night sweats at all to speak of (just a bit warmer at night) and no insomnia (I’m actually sleeping like a baby). Obviously getting some crazy dreams but that’s not too bad since I don’t really dream that much while off so it’s a nice change of pace. Libido is strong.

Training wise, I noticed a strength increase at the beginning of week 2. Not smashing PR’s yet but awfully close and they will start falling in the coming weeks. I also had a strong desire to lift about 3/4 way through Week 1 which I hadn’t had in a while since my training hadn’t been going all that great. Best way to describe it was that I wanted to attack the weights. Nice.

Unfortunately my progress is limited to training as I have noticed very little so far in the way of body comp improvements. I am up about 2 pounds and have not lost anything around my stomach and waist despite drastically cleaning up my diet (it’s still not bodybuilder clean but much better than it was). In fact, if it weren’t for the small changes in my arms (they are a bit leaner that I notice when I ineject) and the training improvements, I would have sworn this stuff was bunk.

It looks like I am going to have to really buckle down on my diet and cardio if I want to see the results that I am expecting from this cycle. That is the plan over the next 2 weeks, and if still no improvement, I will add the T3 and Clen on top.

Am I expecting too much out of only 2 weeks? Maybe. I’d welcome any thoughts.

Cheers

Finished off my Tren Ace last night which means I am at the 3 week mark. Training is still going pretty damn well. Still no unbearable sides. My cardio has gotten slightly better since I’ve been moving around a lot, but still affected negatively by the tren I believe. Slightly more irritable. Nothing I can’t live with.

Libido is a bit lower than I am used to, which is strange. Maybe due to prolactin issues?

Unfortunately I am still seeing very little in the way of body recomp. Ate pretty clean this past week and weight remains unchanged. I did some skinfolds this morning and they are pretty much exactly what they were at the first of January, overall. Slightly higher in the stomach and supra-illiac and leaner everywhere else.

I’ve decided to start the T3 and Clen as of today. T3 is 50 mcg (I only have 50 mcg caps so its in just one dose) and Clen is 80 mcg (40 mcg 2x/day).

I’m not sure why this thread isn’t getting more love. I like these logs where people actually come back and tell everybody how its going. Sorry to hear that its not going all that great in your case though.

I’m sure the T3 and Clen will likely help, but tough love here: are you sure you are eating as well as you think you are? I’ve seen some people post their diets after saying how “healthy” they eat and it is absolute garbage. Not saying this is the case with you, but if you wanted to throw your diet up or something I’m sure some guys here would help critique it.