T Nation

Cutting on Cycle?

Hi,

10 days in to a test e cycle at 400mg per week, currently looking to bulk but running at 15% body fat (measured today), so at some point I want to trim that down. I should have some anavar arriving in the next week or so.

I’m wondering if it would be better to completely end the cycle and suck up the slow and steady dieting/exercise while trying to maintain, or perhaps extending the cycle by 2 or 3 weeks - maybe with a lower dose of test - to try and make inroads in to it by dropping to about 1800 calories a day during (BMR approx 2200), and throwing in a couple of HIIT sessions per week… would the test/anavar ensure gains are kept during such a calorie deficit?

Also, one thing I’m wondering is, if hypothetically I were to take in 3000 cals per day while on cycle, but ended up burning up the surplus through weights and a session or two of cardio over each week, could this result in both hypertrophy and fat loss?

Try it, see what happens, I wouldn’t go as low as 1800 but that’s just me plus you have not listed your weight or height

Didn’t think it would be relevant, given the reference to my BMR… but 155 lbs and 5 foot 8… so only about 400 below maintenance.

You are 5 8 and 155? Are you trying to cut till your are a skeleton?

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
You are 5 8 and 155? Are you trying to cut till your are a skeleton?[/quote]

Did you misread my post? I’m currently bulking, at 15% body fat, and presume there will be some fat as well as lean mass gained while on cycle… the cut wouldn’t be from a weight of 155lbs… that being said, I would rather be 150lbs at 10%, than 155lbs at 15%…

His point is; you hardly weigh enOugh to consider cutting regardless. You seem like one of those wanna be “6 pack fan boys” who don’t actually want a great physique but just abs and shit. To which steroids a weren’t needed for you

Exactly, probably just another zyzz warrior

And you stated your weight to be 155lbs, so i’m not sure how I misread anything, maybe you need to be more clear

"Cross fit "

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
And you stated your weight to be 155lbs, so i’m not sure how I misread anything, maybe you need to be more clear[/quote]

I said I’m 2 weeks in to a cycle, and asked whether it would be better to cut at the end of the cycle, or to extend the cyle by 2 weeks and start the cut during the 2 weeks. Seems less to do with my clarity and more to do with a failure to infer that I would be heavier at the end of a cycle than the start…

[quote]Lift-up-put-down wrote:
His point is; you hardly weigh enOugh to consider cutting regardless. You seem like one of those wanna be “6 pack fan boys” who don’t actually want a great physique but just abs and shit. To which steroids a weren’t needed for you[/quote]

Your comment is a bit ridiculous, ‘a great physique’ is entirely subjective; if someone is aiming to look like a ‘6 pack fan boy’ then in their eyes they would have a great physique, once attained… there is no one’s view of your body that is a more valid motivator for using gear than your own, so you not approving of someone’s desired body type doesn’t mean you are right about what they want to achieve. As for saying hardly weighing enough to cut, I disagree; not many people at 15% that wouldn’t look better at 10%, regardless of weight.

That being said, if I wanted to have that type of body, you’re right, I could achieve it naturally. The weight I would ultimately like to be, is probably around 190lbs, cut. I don’t think it would really put me in that category.

If it were me I would just focus on adding mass this cycle, take time off and maintain that weight, then if your want to cut I would do that next cycle. If you try to cut right after coming off chances are you are going to lose most of what you gained during cycle. Just my opinion.

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If it were me I would just focus on adding mass this cycle, take time off and maintain that weight, then if your want to cut I would do that next cycle. If you try to cut right after coming off chances are you are going to lose most of what you gained during cycle. Just my opinion.[/quote]

I understand that once exogenous test is out the system, the body will be in a catabolic state until natural test rebounds, so I’m not thinking of cutting immediately after. I was wondering if it is worth staying on for 2 weeks longer (only planned to do a short/medium one originally) and using the anticatabolic effects to burn off the fat… if that tactic would work without loss of muscle, I could probably get close to 10% within 2 weeks.

Are you suggesting that method for any other reason than to make sure natural test is back online first?

Yes and just so all your other hormones can stabilize and your body can get used to that weight and what it takes to maintain that weight.

A 2 week cut I feel is too short and you may not experience what you are hoping in such a short time frame. what’s the rush?

[quote]secret-squirrel wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If it were me I would just focus on adding mass this cycle, take time off and maintain that weight, then if your want to cut I would do that next cycle. If you try to cut right after coming off chances are you are going to lose most of what you gained during cycle. Just my opinion.[/quote]

I understand that once exogenous test is out the system, the body will be in a catabolic state until natural test rebounds, so I’m not thinking of cutting immediately after. I was wondering if it is worth staying on for 2 weeks longer (only planned to do a short/medium one originally) and using the anticatabolic effects to burn off the fat… if that tactic would work without loss of muscle, I could probably get close to 10% within 2 weeks.

Are you suggesting that method for any other reason than to make sure natural test is back online first?[/quote]

just stay on it year round.

called blast and cruise. named after maverick.

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
Yes and just so all your other hormones can stabilize and your body can get used to that weight and what it takes to maintain that weight.

A 2 week cut I feel is too short and you may not experience what you are hoping in such a short time frame. what’s the rush?[/quote]

If I ended up going from 155 to 163 (without water weight) during the cycle, 5% of fat by body weight would be 8lbs. If I were to take in 300 calories less than maintenance each day, that’s 300 x 14 = 4200. 4 HIIT sessions would be at least 2000. 8 training sessions, focusing on higher reps should be at least 3600. In total that’s 9800 calories shed/avoided; as I understand it, 3500 equates to 1 pound, so I would have got rid of around 33% of the way there. It would then take a couple of weeks for the test levels to approach baseline and once they’re back I could look at continuing the process, but with much slower and steadier progress.

If the struggle for the body maintaining the gains is influenced by the overall weight, and not just the extra muscle it has to support, this strategy should prove effective, as the fat loss would offset some of the muscle gain.

I would like to achive 10% body fat by the end of May or early June - have a few trips abroad planned and want to look good on the beach. This cycle won’t finish until a month tomorrow, or if I extended 2 weeks as above, 6 weeks tomorrow. In either case, I imagine it would take at least 3 weeks before hormones normalise and I would want to commence a cut. So, if I don’t go down this route it would mean that best case situation, I start cutting in the last week of May, I wouldn’t cut as hard due to catabolic concerns, and I would only have about 3 or 4 weeks to get in to as good shape as possible. As I would be taking it slower I probably wouldn’t be able to achieve in those 3 or 4 weeks what I would in the 2 weeks.

However, thinking about it, once the extra 2 weeks on are done, I would think that for the next week I could keep the training there, but with calories at less of a defict - maybe 100 below maintenance - burning another lb. The following week as the test levels are getting lower, I could bump the calories to maintenance but keep the exercise, which would be another 0.75lb. In theory, this should have got rid of between 4 and 5lbs before test drops below supraphysilogical levels, which should drop me to around 12% - no abs, but sure would look a lot better.

The thing I want feedback on though, is whether test/test and anavar can completely stop atrophy while running at such deficits?

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

[quote]secret-squirrel wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
If it were me I would just focus on adding mass this cycle, take time off and maintain that weight, then if your want to cut I would do that next cycle. If you try to cut right after coming off chances are you are going to lose most of what you gained during cycle. Just my opinion.[/quote]

I understand that once exogenous test is out the system, the body will be in a catabolic state until natural test rebounds, so I’m not thinking of cutting immediately after. I was wondering if it is worth staying on for 2 weeks longer (only planned to do a short/medium one originally) and using the anticatabolic effects to burn off the fat… if that tactic would work without loss of muscle, I could probably get close to 10% within 2 weeks.

Are you suggesting that method for any other reason than to make sure natural test is back online first?[/quote]

just stay on it year round.

called blast and cruise. named after maverick.[/quote]

Sure you’re being sarcastic, but I’m 29 so not ready to sign up for HRT just yet.