T Nation

Cutting Bodyfat & Refeeds/Cheats


#1

Okay,so i was curious about something and i think that you might share your opinions and thougts about it. First to say that i looked everywhere on the web about similar topics and i didnt manage to find the correct answer.

It is simple.

Lets say you have been dieting hard for several days and you are already lean (lets say single digit BF), and then you manage to do a big cheat meal (or even a cheat day) and eat a big surplus of calories over your maintenance level (you are dieting with a big caloric deficit and you deserved it), you refeed, carb up and refill your glycogen, restore your leptin levels and stuff. And here comes my question.

The NEXT day you right after the refeed when you strictly diet again DO YOU burn bodyfat? Or you need first to deplete your glycogen levels a bit (for 2-3 days) to enter the real fat burning mode again? What you think?


#2

I’d be interested to hear Stu’s thoughts on this


#3

Please - over 150 views and still no answer, if someone can help with providing some information among personal experience and scientific stuff here, then please do it. :slight_smile:


#4

Do you burn body fat when? Standing still? While training? During cardio? Glycogen does not have to be all the way depleted to burn fat.


#5

[quote]crazyj23 wrote:
Do you burn body fat when? Standing still? While training? During cardio? Glycogen does not have to be all the way depleted to burn fat.[/quote]
Lets say weight training and then cardio, that the day after the refeed???


#6

CrazyJ23 is correct in his statement that glycogen levels do not need to be fully depleted in order for the body to rely on fatty acid metabolism. Simply consider how many competitive bodybuilders (non-enhanced more so than PED assisted) rely on considerable levels of carbohydrate intake each take during contest preps.

Obviously if your body can store an average of ~400g of glycogen at a given time (there is some disagreement on this # so just go with me on this), and you’re ingesting 250g of carbs on an average day while dieting, it is highly doubtful that any normal person juggling a job, school, daily social interactions, and even weight work and cardio, will be able to make use of 650g of carbs/glycogen in time to still “burn some fat” each day.

The use of refeeds, high days, however someone may choose to call a bump in carbohydrate focused #s, does have an effect on hormonal levels in the body, but I view this not as something that raises levels of fat metabolism, but simply more of a preventative effect. As your hormonal profiles get ‘worse’ (to refer to the process in black and white terms) through extended dieting, the body wants to rid itself of anything that is metabolically costly, and thus the prime focus is simply on self preservation.

It is this constant overriding drive that leads people to state that there is always some muscle loss during a strict diet. Not that I agree with such an absolute statement, but the body definitely wants to. It is the use of an above typical influx of carbohydrates that can have a positive influence on specific hormone levels in the body that sort of wards off the negative issues that are building. Sort of keeping the catabolic wolves at bay so to speak.

Dr Klemszewski always wrote that at any given moment, both carbohydrate and fatty acid metabolism are occurring in the body. It is simply the ratios of how much one may be contributing at any time that we can affect via specific activities or dietary choices.

(I’m sure I’ve simplified matters considerably compared to what you might find in a science text -lol)

S


#7

10x Stu. Anybody to add anything else?


#8

I have competed multiple times, the latest in May. Cheat meals were a regular facet of my routine. I usually did these deep into my diet prep, when I was clearly single digits in body fat. I did massive cheat meals, but only one meal with no restrictions. They didnt do anything and usually my fat loss ACCELERATED 1-2 days after the meal. You need to know your body and cheat meals are great. As long as you keep it to one meal and jump back on the diet


#9

Lets see here.

I am currently refeeding today.Tomorrow early i will do fasted cardio - low to medium intensity treadmill fpr about 45 mins to an hour, should I expect to lose bodyfat, the day just after the refeed, knowing that this type of cardio prefers using mostly fat, instead of glycogen and carbs or should I avoid it (the cardio) and do it after 2-3 days?


#10

Mate I hate sounding like prof x but chill out. It doesn’t matter if you burn fat 13hrs after a cheat/refeed, on Sunday/whatever… Just know that if yiu’re strict and in a large-enough deficit, and training hard, a refeed of the correct size for your size/weekly deficit will expedite fat loss. (Written while eating pancakes)

Questions you should be asking: what macros should I eat during the week (restrictive period)?
What macros should I eat during the refeed?


#11

I am 7% BF, do I look like I dont know what macros I need?Whatever.I am trying to cut to 5% In the next 5 weeks, I will see.


#12

This thread is wayyy over complicating things. Jesus christ people still worry stupid shit like doing cardio to burn just fat instead of burning carbs?? Eat in a deficit, hit your macros, lift and do your cardio, stop over analyzing everything.

That being said, I prefer to have a cheat day every two weeks when dieting, refeeds just don’t do it for me (as thieir is a drastic difference between a refeed and a cheat). A refeed is lowering fats as low as possible, lowering protein, and eating way over your normal carb intake to take you to maintenece calories


#13

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
Mate I hate sounding like prof x but chill out. It doesn’t matter if you burn fat 13hrs after a cheat/refeed, on Sunday/whatever… Just know that if yiu’re strict and in a large-enough deficit, and training hard, a refeed of the correct size for your size/weekly deficit will expedite fat loss. (Written while eating pancakes)

Questions you should be asking: what macros should I eat during the week (restrictive period)?
What macros should I eat during the refeed?[/quote]

If your doing a refeed, lower your fats as much as possible, protein lowered to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight and use carbs to hit your maintence calorie level.

A cheat day is different obviously


#14

[quote]surjenj wrote:
I am 7% BF, do I look like I dont know what macros I need?Whatever.I am trying to cut to 5% In the next 5 weeks, I will see. [/quote]

Very snarky dude. Your questions will require laboratory conditions to get valid answers - they are very academic. Pics of 7%?
PS one benefit of my lovely refeeds is improved mood and sociability lol


#15

[quote]surjenj wrote:
I am 7% BF, do I look like I dont know what macros I need?Whatever.I am trying to cut to 5% In the next 5 weeks, I will see. [/quote]

Do you look like you don’t know what macros you need?

Nice question since you have no pics up you fucking nugget. I love dem internet numberz.


#16

[quote]surjenj wrote:
I am 7% BF, do I look like I dont know what macros I need?Whatever.I am trying to cut to 5% In the next 5 weeks, I will see. [/quote]

Lol! Comments like this stand out to people and definitely affect the help/discussion you’ll get in the future