T Nation

Cutting and Training Help


#1

Hi!

It's been a while that i've been on T-Nation. I wanted to start bodybuilding back in 2013 but i had a motorbike accident which injured my back so i was out until this year.
I started training again in April but it was just bodyweight exercises and running.

I have been lifting weights for the past month and i am trying to lose the fat i put on but my plan doesn't seem to work. I will write down exactly what i am doing so any help will be much appreciated.

At first some general info:
Age:25
Height: 6'2
Weight: 190
Bodyfat: I don't know but i can't see my abs, just a little bit of the first four.
Squat:- ( i can't squat due to my injury)
Bench: 220x2 reps
Rack Pull: 315x1 rep
Pull Ups: 17

Now my nutrition for the cut i am trying is this:
Breakfast: 50 grams oats, 1 scoop whey protein, 1 tbsp peanut butter
Intra Workout: 10g BCAA + 2g Citrulline
Post Workout: 1 scoop whey protein, 1 banana
Meal#2: 100grams rice/potatoes/beans, 200grams beef/chicken breast
Meal#3: 150grams greek yogurt, 2 eggs

I jogg for 40 minutes before breakfast,lift weights after breakfast and i do a fast 2 mile run before my last meal every day except wednesday and saturday where i lift after breakfast and about an hour after my post workout meal i do sprints. On Sundays i fast for the whole day.

The sprint workouts are: 4x60m, 5x400m on wednesday (with doing ab wheel rollouts between sprints) and 16x60m on saturdays. Every session starts with 15' jog as a warmup.

My weight training routine is this:
Monday & Thursday-Chest and Back
1a.Bench Press 3x2
1b.Weighted Pull ups 3x4
2a.Incline Bench Press 4x15-12-9-6, last set drop set
2b.Weighted Chin Ups 4x6, last set drop set
3a.Crossover 3x10
3b.Dips 3xMAX
3c.Machine Rows 3x10
4a.DB Pullover 3x12
4b.Db Flyes 3x12

Tuesday & Friday: Shoulders and Arms

1.Hang Clean 5x2
2a.Front Raise 3x10
2b.Lateral Raise 3x10
2c.DB Clean 3x10
3a.DB Shrugs 3x12 (3'' hold)
3b.Rear Delt Raises 3x20
4a.Rope Pushdowns 4x20
4b.DB Curls 4x8
5a.Tricep Machine Dips 4x10
5b.Machine Preacher Curls 4x10
6a.French Press 4x15
6b.Hammer Curls 4x15

Wednesday & Saturday: Legs and Core

1.Split Squats 3x15/leg
2.Hack Squats 3x5
3.Rack Pulls 5x3
4.Glute Bridges 3x10
5.Ab Rollouts 3xMAX
6.Swiss Ball Hamstring Curls 3x15

That's it guys. I lost some fat the first two weeks but know all fatloss has stopped. My whole body got a bit leaner except my lower abs and love handles. The good thing is i got stronger as i lost the weight instead of getting weaker. In the beginning i was 205 pounds and now i am 190 but how much do i need to lose to lean out in the abdominal area. What should i change?
Looking forward to hearing your advice!
Cheers!


#2

[quote]lev wrote:
I jogg for 40 minutes before breakfast,lift weights after breakfast and i do a fast 2 mile run before my last meal every day except wednesday and saturday where i lift after breakfast and about an hour after my post workout meal i do sprints. On Sundays i fast for the whole day.

The sprint workouts are: 4x60m, 5x400m on wednesday (with doing ab wheel rollouts between sprints) and 16x60m on saturdays. Every session starts with 15’ jog as a warmup.
[/quote]

And you’re seriously wondering why your fat loss has stalled?


#3

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]lev wrote:
I jogg for 40 minutes before breakfast,lift weights after breakfast and i do a fast 2 mile run before my last meal every day except wednesday and saturday where i lift after breakfast and about an hour after my post workout meal i do sprints. On Sundays i fast for the whole day.

The sprint workouts are: 4x60m, 5x400m on wednesday (with doing ab wheel rollouts between sprints) and 16x60m on saturdays. Every session starts with 15’ jog as a warmup.
[/quote]

And you’re seriously wondering why your fat loss has stalled?
[/quote]

What, should i do more? I was thinking lately of running 60’ instead of 40 in the morning. It’s the first time i am trying to cut so i am not very knowledgable on how to do it…


#4

[quote]lev wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]lev wrote:
I jogg for 40 minutes before breakfast,lift weights after breakfast and i do a fast 2 mile run before my last meal every day except wednesday and saturday where i lift after breakfast and about an hour after my post workout meal i do sprints. On Sundays i fast for the whole day.

The sprint workouts are: 4x60m, 5x400m on wednesday (with doing ab wheel rollouts between sprints) and 16x60m on saturdays. Every session starts with 15’ jog as a warmup.
[/quote]

And you’re seriously wondering why your fat loss has stalled?
[/quote]

What, should i do more? I was thinking lately of running 60’ instead of 40 in the morning. It’s the first time i am trying to cut so i am not very knowledgable on how to do it…
[/quote]

Errr, you need to start going the other way…


#5

[quote]lev wrote:
I jogg for 40 minutes before breakfast,lift weights after breakfast and i do a fast 2 mile run before my last meal every day except wednesday and saturday where i lift after breakfast and about an hour after my post workout meal i do sprints. On Sundays i fast for the whole day.

[/quote]

You can research this with a few clicks of the mouse on this site and find tons of articles on this subject, all of which I can guarantee will be a million miles from what you are currently doing.

Given you appear to like training a lot and have the time to do so, I would suggest looking at John Berardi. He recommends a similar training split but with 2 HIIT sessions a week only. You can also potentially add some steady state cardio, i.e. your running, immediately after these sessions for 15-20 mins to augment fat loss, however, this is the maximum. I’m a fan of IF but I think in your case the Sunday fast is a poor choice.


#6

[quote]lev wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]lev wrote:
I jogg for 40 minutes before breakfast,lift weights after breakfast and i do a fast 2 mile run before my last meal every day except wednesday and saturday where i lift after breakfast and about an hour after my post workout meal i do sprints. On Sundays i fast for the whole day.

The sprint workouts are: 4x60m, 5x400m on wednesday (with doing ab wheel rollouts between sprints) and 16x60m on saturdays. Every session starts with 15’ jog as a warmup.
[/quote]

And you’re seriously wondering why your fat loss has stalled?
[/quote]

What, should i do more? I was thinking lately of running 60’ instead of 40 in the morning. It’s the first time i am trying to cut so i am not very knowledgable on how to do it…
[/quote]

Well basically everything your are doing is more or less fat loss progress suicide.

Running before lifting
Running after lifting
Running everyday
Too many sprints on HIIT days
Fasting sunday (why?)

Literally stop all of that. I mean zero cardio. Some guys here will differ slightly in opinion on where to start with a cut. Some like zero cardio, others “a bit.” And “a bit” is something like sprinting 2x/week, maybe (5-8)x(50-100)m.

But right now you’re doing more cardio than a figure competitor two weeks out.


#7

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

Well basically everything your are doing is more or less fat loss progress suicide.

Running before lifting
Running after lifting
Running everyday
Too many sprints on HIIT days
Fasting sunday (why?)

Literally stop all of that. I mean zero cardio. Some guys here will differ slightly in opinion on where to start with a cut. Some like zero cardio, others “a bit.” And “a bit” is something like sprinting 2x/week, maybe (5-8)x(50-100)m.

But right now you’re doing more cardio than a figure competitor two weeks out. [/quote]

Ok man thanks a lot! I will stop all cardio and continue lifting only weights.

Should i drop my calories a bit now that i won’t be training as much or i will keep losing fat with the diet as it is?


#8

I don’t even know where to begin.

You lift weights six times a week with every session consisting of 10-15 exercises and a 3X/week frequency per bodypart, run more miles per week than some dedicated competition runners - and at 190, you hardly eat 1500 calories. Have you considered scrapping everything and instead doing what knowledgeable people have kindly written down in articles which, you know, are available for free online?


#9

Is my weight training program also wrong? What should i change?

I thought more is better if you want to lose fat both in cardio and weights. It seems like i was wrong…

As for my nutrition, if i am not losing with what i eat now, when i 'll eat more, won’t i gain fat?


#10

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
Have you considered scrapping everything and instead doing what knowledgeable people have kindly written down in articles which, you know, are available for free online?[/quote]


#11

[quote]lev wrote:
Is my weight training program also wrong? What should i change?

I thought more is better if you want to lose fat both in cardio and weights. It seems like i was wrong…

As for my nutrition, if i am not losing with what i eat now, when i 'll eat more, won’t i gain fat?[/quote]

More is not better

More is more, better is better.


#12

At first thanks everyone for your time and your replies.

I have read many articles but all this info is so much confusing!
5/2 diet, IF, traditional bodybuilding diets, training once per week per muscle group, training twice per week per muscle group, mountaindog training, christian thibaudeau higher frequency training, no cardio, fasted cardio, HIIT Cardio…you get what i’m trying to say…for someone who doesn’t have much experience with that stuff, it’s hard to make a good choice…

jskrabac and everyone, you guys look both experienced and jacked so if you could please guide me to a road that will help me achieve my goal i will definitely follow it…


#13

This is exactly what I would do in your shoes:

Begin tracking your calories and macros everyday day. To establish a calorie goal to start your diet, multiply your bodyweight in pounds by 13. Multiplying by 10-12 is the standard advice but I have found that to be too low for some people, and it is better to start a bit too high than too low – especially if you’ve been essentially starving yourself and you enjoy training a lot. 190x13 = ~2450.

From there, set your protein at 1 to 1.5 grams per lb of bodyweight. This is largely a matter of personal preference. I’ll set it at 200 grams because that makes math easy. That’s 800 calories from protein. This leaves you with 1650 calories to split between carbs and fat. A relatively balanced approach would be 230 grams (930 calories) of carbs and 80 grams (720 calories) of fat.

Eat these or similar numbers every day for at least 2 weeks:
2450 calories
200 g protein
230 g carbs
80 g fat

After two weeks, you should have a decent idea if you need to add more food, take something out, or stay the course. Aim to lose an average of 1 to 1.5 lbs per week and make biweekly adjustments to your macros as needed, based on whether or not you are hitting that target.

For training: lift 3-5 days per week, do HIIT 0-2 days per week with each session lasting no more than 15 minutes, and do LOW intensity (not moderate intensity) cardio for 45-90 minutes per week. Follow a lifting program that you know works for you, and try to improve your performance and strength over time.

After 16 or so weeks of this you should be substantially leaner and 15-20 lbs lighter. At this point you can decide if you want to continue losing weight, want to maintain for a while, or want to slowly start gaining. Adjust your macros accordingly.


#14

TrevorLPT, thanks a lot man! I will follow what you said about nutrition and see how it goes…

Should i do a once per week bodypart split?


#15

[quote]lev wrote:
I have read many articles but all this info is so much confusing!
5/2 diet, IF, traditional bodybuilding diets, training once per week per muscle group, training twice per week per muscle group, mountaindog training, christian thibaudeau higher frequency training, no cardio, fasted cardio, HIIT Cardio…you get what i’m trying to say…for someone who doesn’t have much experience with that stuff, it’s hard to make a good choice…
[/quote]

I don’t get what you’re trying to say…at all. So far, I’m not sure if this is a troll thread, or you just don’t have common sense. There are zero, literally zero of the thousands of articles on this site that would have you following your cross country runner cardio template mixed with poverty level calories. How did you come up with that if you really read “all this so much confusing info?!”

For that reason, some more experienced posters in here are going to pass on actually taking the time to post a thought out guideline for you. It’s evident you will completely misinterpret or fail to follow any of the advice.


#16

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]lev wrote:
I have read many articles but all this info is so much confusing!
5/2 diet, IF, traditional bodybuilding diets, training once per week per muscle group, training twice per week per muscle group, mountaindog training, christian thibaudeau higher frequency training, no cardio, fasted cardio, HIIT Cardio…you get what i’m trying to say…for someone who doesn’t have much experience with that stuff, it’s hard to make a good choice…
[/quote]

I don’t get what you’re trying to say…at all. So far, I’m not sure if this is a troll thread, or you just don’t have common sense. There are zero, literally zero of the thousands of articles on this site that would have you following your cross country runner cardio template mixed with poverty level calories. How did you come up with that if you really read “all this so much confusing info?!”

For that reason, some more experienced posters in here are going to pass on actually taking the time to post a thought out guideline for you. It’s evident you will completely misinterpret or fail to follow any of the advice. [/quote]

I came up with my plan before i started reading more stuff here…it’s when i saw that i didn’t get good results that i started researching more. But from all the things i read it’s hard to decide what to believe and what to follow when there are so many opinions on what works and what doesn’t…

The funny thing is that you talked about poverty level calories…indeed in the country i live, eating what i eat is considered a great amount of food but whatever…i 'll do my best to try to up my calories like TrevorLPT said…

I don’t get why you think it is a troll thread…who would take the time to write everything i wrote for that reason…
I understand that what i was doing is stupid and i just ask for some help, that’s all…


#17

[quote]lev wrote:
At first thanks everyone for your time and your replies.

I have read many articles but all this info is so much confusing!
5/2 diet, IF, traditional bodybuilding diets, training once per week per muscle group, training twice per week per muscle group, mountaindog training, christian thibaudeau higher frequency training, no cardio, fasted cardio, HIIT Cardio…you get what i’m trying to say…for someone who doesn’t have much experience with that stuff, it’s hard to make a good choice…

jskrabac and everyone, you guys look both experienced and jacked so if you could please guide me to a road that will help me achieve my goal i will definitely follow it…
[/quote]

You may use a couple of these ideas, but definitely not all of them! The basic idea is:

  • be in a slight caloric deficit, enough to slowly lose fat without starving. Make sure you still get enough protein and vitamins.
  • Lift to maintain and possibly even gain muscle and strength. Compound moves are crucial here, as is doing reasonable amounts of volume.
  • If your fat loss stalls, carefully include cardio. Never let the cardio interfere with your strength training.

Concerning your routine: please, please pick something a coach wrote. There are plenty of options on here, Clay Hyght’s stuff would probably be good for you. Right now you are doing plenty of junk volume, i.e. there is no rhyme or reason to the amount or type of work that you do.