Cutting and Strength/Muscle Loss

Prof, I know…It’s a work competition with a cash prize. I need more mass, I know!

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is honestly the first time my strength has not dropped. I do notice some days where I can’t do as many reps with the same weight (I am sure due to the lack of carbs in my diet lately), but no drastic strength decreases lately.

Excessive cardio is the devil and will rob you of any hard earned muscle.

Also, dieting before you SOLIDIFY those gains is a great way to lose everything as well.[/quote]

are you dieting for a show Prof or just for yourself? How much weight have you dropped so far?[/quote]

Not a show. I just have something coming up and a date set. If I showed you the pics taken in the last month, you would probably think I lost at least 20lbs but the scale hasn’t moved that much.

[quote]behexen wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Also, dieting before you SOLIDIFY those gains is a great way to lose everything as well.[/quote]

I’ve read that your supposed to stay at a certain body weight after a bulk to let your body get used to it before you start cutting. Is this what your referring to?[/quote]

It’s Professor X’s question, but I just found this in the T-Cell and thought it might be helpful: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/set_points?id=2557963&pageNo=0

I have cut around 15 pound in the last couple months and my strength has not decreased, in fact, it has increased. As was previously stated, reassess what you’re doing if you’re losing excessive strength while cutting. You might be cutting too quickly or not training properly amongst other things

Your priority is getting the gaining phase sorted, especially if you have a tendency for easy fat gain. There’s no need to take things to the extreme, before it’s even time.

Examples:

Clever Joe goes from 180lbs to 200lbs in 10 months, his bodyfat increases on the callipers from 12% to 14/15%. He gained ~12-14lbs of muscle and ~6-8lbs of fat (a ratio of roughly 70/30 which is really good for the average guy). Even though he gained 8lbs of fat, he still looks good, if not better than he did at 180lbs because of the extra muscle (fills him out better). To others without a keen eye, he didn’t even gain any fat. Nevertheless, so that things don’t get “out of hand” later on, for the next 2 months, he trims off the extra 6lbs (which is easy, less than 1lbs of fat a week…doesn’t have to go on some pre-contest diet, doesn’t need much cardio if any because he’s already lifting 5-6x/week, and can even gain a little strength). He then proceeds his next sensible gaining phase the next year.

Stupid John goes from 180lbs to 200lbs in 3 months. He read that he needs to force his body to change, and eat for it, and as he does this he starts to see gains. But he takes it too far, and tries to force gains. He doesn’t worry too much about his diet, doesn’t even eat enough protein, and just tries to force the scale up by 1-2lbs every week eating everything in sight. He trains 3 days/week, sometimes 4 if he’s feeling up to it. His bodyfat increases on the callipers from 12% to 17%, he gained 8lbs of muscle and 12lbs of fat. Because of this bad ratio, it shows. So he decides (with his irrational/impulsiveness) that he needs to get “shredded”. He’s fed up of being “fat”, so instead of just trimming a little and recommencing gaining, he spends the next year yoyoing and spinning his wheels. He “diets” (i.e. reduces calories far too much, and does far too much cardio for his stage), and looses muscle/strength. This freaks him out, so he decides to “bulk” again…and so this terrible cycle repeats. His lifts in the gym hardly even go up even over a year.

I know they are both extremes, but hope this little story somehow helps lol

Stupid John (page 3 onwards):

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/blog_sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_alpha/my_first_cut?id=3073643&pageNo=0

Clever Joe:

:slight_smile:

[quote]XanderBuilt wrote:

[quote]titsmcgee103 wrote:
How can you progress in the gym if you’re cutting. Also I guess what in asking is after you finish a cut does your strength lost during said cut rapidly rebound when you start bulking/recomping again, and you exit a hypocaloric environment[/quote]

How did you train during your cut? Specifically?

How much fat/BF% did you lose during the process?[/quote]
About 1.4% or so so far but I’m only 4 weeks in today an bench str dropped about 35 lbs ;(

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
You loose strength when starving, not cutting. How much weight have you lost over what period of time? Describe what your conditioning was like before the ‘cut’ and what you have done during. How much did you weigh before and how many calories a day were you eating? How about the same question now? What changes did you make to your resistance routine? [/quote]
It’s been 4 weeks today and I went from 190 to 177( weighed earlier this week) but I also just came off creative so a lot of that was probably water

[quote]myself1992 wrote:
I have cut around 15 pound in the last couple months and my strength has not decreased, in fact, it has increased. As was previously stated, reassess what you’re doing if you’re losing excessive strength while cutting. You might be cutting too quickly or not training properly amongst other things[/quote]

Agreed with this.

And at the end of the day anything you want badly sometimes comes with a price. If you want to get lean and get a little weaker, lose a little muscle, that’s ok because you’ll look 10x better.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is honestly the first time my strength has not dropped. I do notice some days where I can’t do as many reps with the same weight (I am sure due to the lack of carbs in my diet lately), but no drastic strength decreases lately.

Excessive cardio is the devil and will rob you of any hard earned muscle.

Also, dieting before you SOLIDIFY those gains is a great way to lose everything as well.[/quote]

are you dieting for a show Prof or just for yourself? How much weight have you dropped so far?[/quote]

Not a show. I just have something coming up and a date set. If I showed you the pics taken in the last month, you would probably think I lost at least 20lbs but the scale hasn’t moved that much.[/quote]

Sweet. The actual number on the scale doesn’t really matter anyway, it’s all about how you look.

What approach are taking with this diet? Carb cycling? Pulse feast? Intermittent Fasting? Regular old small caloric deficit?
(if you don’t really want to get into it in here I understand)

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is honestly the first time my strength has not dropped. I do notice some days where I can’t do as many reps with the same weight (I am sure due to the lack of carbs in my diet lately), but no drastic strength decreases lately.

Excessive cardio is the devil and will rob you of any hard earned muscle.

Also, dieting before you SOLIDIFY those gains is a great way to lose everything as well.[/quote]

are you dieting for a show Prof or just for yourself? How much weight have you dropped so far?[/quote]

Not a show. I just have something coming up and a date set. If I showed you the pics taken in the last month, you would probably think I lost at least 20lbs but the scale hasn’t moved that much.[/quote]

Sweet. The actual number on the scale doesn’t really matter anyway, it’s all about how you look.

What approach are taking with this diet? Carb cycling? Pulse feast? Intermittent Fasting? Regular old small caloric deficit?
(if you don’t really want to get into it in here I understand)[/quote]

I will go into that in about a month unless the same crew turning most threads into crap are still up to it.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is honestly the first time my strength has not dropped. I do notice some days where I can’t do as many reps with the same weight (I am sure due to the lack of carbs in my diet lately), but no drastic strength decreases lately.

Excessive cardio is the devil and will rob you of any hard earned muscle.

Also, dieting before you SOLIDIFY those gains is a great way to lose everything as well.[/quote]

are you dieting for a show Prof or just for yourself? How much weight have you dropped so far?[/quote]

Not a show. I just have something coming up and a date set. If I showed you the pics taken in the last month, you would probably think I lost at least 20lbs but the scale hasn’t moved that much.[/quote]

Sweet. The actual number on the scale doesn’t really matter anyway, it’s all about how you look.

What approach are taking with this diet? Carb cycling? Pulse feast? Intermittent Fasting? Regular old small caloric deficit?
(if you don’t really want to get into it in here I understand)[/quote]

I will go into that in about a month unless the same crew turning most threads into crap are still up to it.[/quote]

Heres to hoping we can find out

[quote]DixiesFinest wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is honestly the first time my strength has not dropped. I do notice some days where I can’t do as many reps with the same weight (I am sure due to the lack of carbs in my diet lately), but no drastic strength decreases lately.

Excessive cardio is the devil and will rob you of any hard earned muscle.

Also, dieting before you SOLIDIFY those gains is a great way to lose everything as well.[/quote]

are you dieting for a show Prof or just for yourself? How much weight have you dropped so far?[/quote]

Not a show. I just have something coming up and a date set. If I showed you the pics taken in the last month, you would probably think I lost at least 20lbs but the scale hasn’t moved that much.[/quote]

Sweet. The actual number on the scale doesn’t really matter anyway, it’s all about how you look.

What approach are taking with this diet? Carb cycling? Pulse feast? Intermittent Fasting? Regular old small caloric deficit?
(if you don’t really want to get into it in here I understand)[/quote]

I will go into that in about a month unless the same crew turning most threads into crap are still up to it.[/quote]

Heres to hoping we can find out[/quote]

x2… If not there’s always PM’s

as said you shouldnt really lose strength or muscle when dieting . how mucch weight were you losing a week ? .
imo half a pound a week max is a safe rate of weight loss and if youre keeping intensity the same when training your strength/muscle sould stay the same . the mistake most people make is dropping cals to low and losing weight to fast along with LOADS of cardio .

[quote]lia67 wrote:
as said you shouldnt really lose strength or muscle when dieting . how mucch weight were you losing a week ? .
imo half a pound a week max is a safe rate of weight loss and if youre keeping intensity the same when training your strength/muscle sould stay the same . the mistake most people make is dropping cals to low and losing weight to fast along with LOADS of cardio .[/quote]

I would say the biggest mistake people make is wanting results yesterday so they gain weight too fast, get fat too fast, get scared too fast, diet too fast, lose all of their muscle too fast, and then repeat real fast.

I guess I’m the exception, but I’ve been dieting for about 11 weeks now, I’m still not that lean, and I’ve lost a fairly good bit of strength on my big movements. Don’t think I’m dieting away muscle mass either.

Same thing happened last time I dieted. It came back, and then some, with the rebound, so I’m not stressing, but it’s definitely a mindfuck.

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
I guess I’m the exception, but I’ve been dieting for about 11 weeks now, I’m still not that lean, and I’ve lost a fairly good bit of strength on my big movements. Don’t think I’m dieting away muscle mass either.

Same thing happened last time I dieted. It came back, and then some, with the rebound, so I’m not stressing, but it’s definitely a mindfuck.[/quote]

I USUALLY drop strength. I know that MAG-10 is the main reason I’m not this time. I know I keep saying that, but if I was trying what I am doing now with regular protein shakes I would be dropping muscle like a rock and my strength would be down some.

Question Prof, do you ever take stimulants before lifting?

[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Question Prof, do you ever take stimulants before lifting?[/quote]

The better question would be when do I not.

There is no way I could have made it through school going as hard as I was without waking myself up in the gym.

Lately I use coffee and Spike to get up for the gym.

Also, the supplement I mentioned has changed the way I even think about my eating. I don’t need near as many calories as I used to.

Stims are good for the metabolism too.

I also read coffee drinkers are 17% less likely to become diabetic…Useless info really for those of us that train and eat good, but more reason for me to have a cup or two before my workout.