Obviously, I don’t compete, but I am interested in getting my BF down to about ten percent, and I struggle getting below fourteen. I avoid HIIT, I think because I’m a big wimp. I do a lot of LISS (I commute on my bike about 80 miles per week) and frankly, I enjoy it. I don’t like HIIT.
So, without trying to get into contest shape, but wanting to lower BF, do you think HIIT is still more effective than LISS if not trying to get into contest condition?
Most definitely. HIIT is just a more effective fat burner than steady state. After a solid HIIT workout, fat burning and metabolism is boosted big time, you’ll be burning fat all day, and the next day, far more than you would if you didn’t do that HIIT workout. You’ll be sitting on the couch watching tv, burning fat, vs steady state, which burns calories only while you do it. Additionally, the body adapts to steady state far more quickly and efficiently than it does with HIIT.
I enjoy LISS too in the off season lol. I also don’t like HIIT, at all, it’s just necessary and I accept it because I know it gets the job done.
There’s nothing WRONG with steady state, and it certainly can be very enjoyable, I’m not saying it should be avoided for those not in a contest style prep. LISS has numerous health benefits and should definitely part of an active, healthy life style. Using your commute as an example, if you’re already riding your bike 80 miles a week, think of how many miles you’d need to add to burn more fat than you do now. And then more miles, more, etc.
I used to go to the gym with a guy I’d see there every single day. This guy was the king of LISS. He rode his bike to/from work every day, and the gym, everywhere really. Probably logged at least 150 miles a week. Then he’d come to the gym and do the elliptical for 90-120 minutes every day, and ride his bike home. Now you’d think with all that cardio he’d at least be skinny, even if he didn’t have mass. Nope, this guy was fat. Not obese, but fat, he had a big ol belly that never looked any different in the 2 years I went to that gym, because LISS was his only source of fat burning, and he adapted to it. I’d also bet his metabolism gradually slowed down because of it.
@The_Myth you obviously train hard so this wouldn’t apply to you the same way. But if you want to get the body fat to low enough levels to look jacked, not necessarily contest shape but really lean, HIIT will get you there way faster and more efficiently than not doing it. If you’re already doing 80 miles a week on your bike, your body is used to that level of effort. So I’d assume to get more fat loss, aside from nutritional adjustments, you’d have to add an obscene amount of additional LISS, not including your current commute schedule.
Adding one or two weekly HIIT sessions (provided nutrition is in line and such) will most definitely give your body the shock it needs to get ~10%!
Not the answer I was looking for, lol, but the answer I knew was coming. I’m aware of the fat aerobics instructor syndrome - she teaches 30 hours of aerobics per week but is still fat because she’s used to it, she’s adapted.
My nutrition is better than the average bear, but not great - I like cereal and cookies, but track macros. Again, not trying to get into contest shape, but would like to be leaner. I’ve done HIIT before, but not a big fan of it (cause it hurts).
My understanding is that cardio interferes with adding LBM. So, should you avoid HIIT while trying to grow, or just do it less than if you were in contest prep?
Appreciate it.
And, do you miss teaching (bwahahahaha)?
for me the most important aspect was nutrition. i trained 3 days a week with a push pull legs split. i kept training in the 8-10 rep range for upper body, 8-15 rep range for lower body. i applied some intensity techniques like drop sets, rest pause, supersets, partials from time to time. i did 30 minutes of cardio at the end of every workout. i reached my goals with this plan.
Wow man amazing work! How long was it between the two pics using those methods?
I don’t think lifting should change, like Rob said you still want to go heavy and hard. But I found, especially as I got deeper into my prep, that I just didn’t have the energy to lift heavy and hard day in and day out. I would try to hit at least one exercise for 5x5 or a heavy 4x8 but after that I felt drained. Reps of 10-12 felt easier from a CNS standpoint in my opinion.
Definitely have to do cardio as @robstein mentioned. I think with some decent carb cycling, you could do less but I was one of those guys doing excessive amounts of cardio. My prep coach started me at like 2800 calories and 3300 on high days with 3-4 days of 20 mins LISS cardio fasted and post-workout. I thought it was ridiculous to start with that much, based on a lot of the stuff I read here, but the guy is an IFBB pro so I took his word for it.
Towards the end of the prep I was doing 45 mins fasted and 45 mins post-workout 6 days a week. This was only for a week but man it sucked. I also started at 5’11, 215 and am only 24 so that could have been a factor. I got on stage at 195.
I would have loved to do HIIT more than LISS (especially with all the research behind it) but I think the high amounts of LISS starting off made my HIIT less effective. I’m not sure, I was doing HIIT post-workout for 20-25 mins for a couple weeks towards the middle of my prep just to switch things up and didn’t see any progress so I went back to LISS. Obviously there are many other factors that could have contributed to it not working. I do like the way @BrickHead does HIIT with some LISS afterwards, I think I will incorporate that during the offseason/next prep
Beginning of prep to morning of the show.
thank you. before photo is from october 2013. i was newly married and kept getting fatter until may 2014. i was around 100 kgs. then i started lifting regularly and eating cleaner. after some time i became much more serious and i dropped to 73 kgs in june 2015. this after photo is from this year, june 2016 and my weight is 73 kg again. i maintained my weight whole year but definitely improved my body composition. now im increasing my clean food intake and my goal is to become 75 kgs with this leanness. its not much, especially for more serious lifters like you but im happy with my body at the moment.
he had an awesome thread detailing the transformation
mate you don’t need to qualify yourself with statements like “not much for lifters like you”. You built a shitload of muscle and cut down 'til you were big and lean! That’s all anyone here is trying to do.
You should be very proud of yourself, man.
re: the whole “lifting high reps to cut up the muscle”
We all know that that’s not literally the case, but isn’t doing high reps and keeping the rest periods short basically just HIIT? We all know HIIT strips bodyfat, so isn’t it the same thing for all intents and purposes?
So while the high reps aren’t cutting up the muscle per se, you’re essentially doing a hybrid weight training/energy systems workout.
I dunno. Seems to me like there might be something to this whole “high reps for cutting thing” after all…
It works like a charm. Also brisk morning walk before breakfast work like a charm for me too. People can say fasted cardio is bro-science, but once I made a slight caloric deficit and added on brisk walks before breakfasts (while already doing two interval sessions every six days), things started really moving. These were Stu’s orders obviously.
Yeah that makes sense, so it’s hard to say if high reps might offer some fat burning benefits over lower heavier reps. If they do I think they’re negligible in the long run. Overall, just my thoughts, I think weight workouts should be driven towards building and maintaining muscle, not burning body fat. Save that focus for the cardio.
I think it could definitely be slightly more cardiovascular than lower reps with a heavier weight, but I don’t think it can be compared to a HIIT workout. When I’ve done higher reps with short rest periods vs a HIIT workout, they feel completely different in terms of just total body exhaustion and energy output.
Outstanding man you look great! Awesome info. Do you know when you’ll be competing again?
Thanks! I’m thinking like June-July ish. Need to add some upper body mass. Haven’t decided if I’ll do another NPC show or a natural show, but there is lots of time!
Yeah spot on, in general you want to keep cardio minimal if you’re trying to put on mass, definitely less than a contest prep. So if gaining is your top priority, you would want to avoid excessive cardio but it certainly couldn’t hurt to put a little bit in there just to make sure you’re putting on the right kind of weight. If your top priority is to lean out, of course we want to try to keep as much muscle as possible but ultimately everything need to be geared towards fat loss.
On a mass phase, something like adding 20ish minutes of low or medium intensity cardio after weights a couple times a week would be helpful for some fat burning every now and then without risking muscle loss or hindering recovery. Whether trying to gain or cut, a HIIT workout should probably have its own day, I remember reading recently about some research showing doing a HIIT session the same day as a weight session can really hinder recovery/growth on that day. Even if you’re trying to gain, I think having one HIIT session per week, on its own day, would be beneficial to keep the fat off and pack on the LBM. Although personally if I’m gaining I’m not doing HIIT, but I will do a little LISS after weights sometimes. If you are going to compete eventually or try to cut, keeping away from HIIT in the off season can be beneficial so when you finally implement it in a prep or cutting phase, it’s very effective.
But like you said overall excessive cardio will hinder muscle growth. So if you’re trying to gain keep it minimal and focus on nutrition to do most of the work.
Bwahahaha x2! Lol. Ya know I do a little bit, but really it’s only a small group of my best most dedicated kids that makes me miss it, but it’s nowhere near enough to make me second guess my decision to stop. When my wife goes to school (she’s a teacher also) and I go upstairs to my office with my coffee in my hand and my dogs at my feet, life is good 
It sounds to me like we are arguing intention.
You can do complexes intended as HIIT vs. Lifting for time under tension, hypertrophy etc. Can you do both effectively at the same time? Probably, but man you’ll be burned, especially when you are doing cardiovascular post-workout.
discussing, mate. Not arguing, winkyface.
I guess it depends on a lot of factors. Obviously 10x10 squats with 30s rest will feel more like HIIT than 3x20 lateral raises with a minute’s rest, or whatever.
I agree though that when you’re in the gym the focus should always be to get stronger, regardless of whether you’re trying to lose or gain weight
The high reps/low reps is an interesting discussion for sure
I’ve always wondered if the “high reps for cutting” could have also been a misinterpretation of the fact that as BBers approach a contest they tend to become more injury prone and have next to no chance of actually adding muscle, thus lifting near maximal weights provides almost no benefit above and beyond higher reps but does come with severe risks (See: Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates).
There could also be something to doing 5x15 versus 5x5… Albeit minimal, but done for many exercises over many workouts MIGHT provide a slight advantage in fat loss
Then again… What gives more of a metabolic boost, curling a pencil 100 times or dead lifting your 1 RM? Obviously this is an extreme example but it does give it some context
