Current Bodybuilding Training Thread 2.0

Bigger Stronger Leaner
384

haha, yeah! Some of those pre-workouts would just give me heart palpatations and I wouldn’t be able to finish a workout because I’d be out of my mind!

I know you said that you don’t get really sore anymore. I don’t either…but I think that’s more to do with nutrition than my body having adapted to the workouts. I seem to get more muscle soreness when I’m cutting (aka – not as much caloric intake). Did you notice more muscle soreness during your prep or did you just get to a “I’m numb, leave me alone” point? :slight_smile:

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385

I still get sore as hell in my legs, which is actually what began my splitting my leg training into two days. The muscles would be so sore and tight that I incurred several groun injuries so I finally decided to stop being an idiot and letting go of “leg day” ( hard habit to break after so many years of BBing training and mentality)

I think for purposes of BBing a little soreness isn’t necessary, but can be an indicator you had a good session. Obviously there are caveats there, but if a seasoned and consistent trainer can get the targeted area sore it probably means they hit the fibers they wanted

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386

Yeah I still get sore from time to time, funny some days when your covered in sweat head to toe having a great workout and thinking gee I’m going to be sore tomorrow, wake up the next day feeling fine, other days where your workout was not so great, and the next day you feel like you have been hit by a train, it must come down to diet pre and post setup I suppose.

387

i have a cup of Turkish coffee 30 minutes before my workouts which is pretty strong.
the preworkout supplements really scare me.

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388

I do not use pre-workout in the off season and avoid it as much as possible during the prep until I really need it. Typically in off season and during the prep, a small cup of coffee about 30 min before the gym is what I like. I don’t want to use pre-workouts because I don’t want my body to get used to them, or to need them to train hard, or take in that much caffeine on a daily basis. I also train around 4pm and go to bed around 10pm, and getting 300-400mg caffeine will cause me to not sleep well that late in the day.

During the prep I think I used pre-workout a small handful of times, in the form of the Spike tablets which unfortunately aren’t on the website anymore. I like the tablets because I could take 1 at 150mg caffeine and get a little bump without going overboard.

389

As some others have said, I typically don’t get sore anymore, unless I try a new exercise or one I haven’t done in a while. I aim to get sore and get a great pump during the session, especially towards the end with a good shoulder finisher, but I don’t use DOMS as a mark of progress or an efficient workout. I think if you put the tension where you want it during the workout and get a great pump, and train consistently with intensity, that’s what matters most, nutrition and rest take the priority for recovery and growth.

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390

i am thinking about switching from push-pull-legs to back & chest / shoulders & arms / legs split. i grew up reading the enormous upper body pump you get from training chest with back in Arnold’s books but i never gave it a try. ( which is interesting ) anyone using that split?

391

Im 14 and love weightlifting. I love the pump an am generally just addicted. I go to gym 5 days a week and im just wondering does it stunt my growth and is it a good idea for me to do a 5 day split or should i do a 4 day and since i have basketball on fridays im thinking not to workout on fridays. The days i have access are sundays mondays tuesdays thursday fridays. So i can rest on saturday and wednesday. So should i do a 4 day split and say pair back and chest together?

392

Remember that the pump and soreness are never indicators of growth. Sure increasing blood flow to an area can be productive and there is a proven metabolic effect from higher rep (pump?) work, but I would never rely on it as a signal of work well done.

S

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393

During a contest prep, what cues do you guys use to determine when your “tweak” to make progress goes too far? Strength loss? Overall energy level? Hunger impacting sleep? If all these are “normal” for you guys, that would be good to know, too.

Also, when you get to that spot, do you prefer to do a refeed, or tweak calories up (or reduce cardio) a little?

I am not planning to do a show, but I am 10 weeks into an 18 week cut. I have not tried this before, so I am wondering if my last tweak was a little too much. I started at 2,300 cal (cycling carbs, 180g carbs avg 140g & 220g), then dropped carbs down to 150avg (100g & 200g) but kept calories at 2250. I tweaked them down again 3 weeks ago to 2100cal and 110g carbs (80g & 140g). I’ve done 3 lifting workouts, 3 HIIT sessions throughout. I started adding in 15-20min of LISS after 1 HIIT session, and 1 other LISS session. Oh, and I am 5’9", 194lbs (started at 201) and mostly trained as a PLer and WLer. I’m using a mirror, not calipers, so I would guess I am around 18% BF (I see ab outline, but not six pack), down from the mid 20’s. Up until 3 weeks ago, I was seeing more veins each week, and lifts were going up, so I wasn’t watching the scale. I was not seeing my waistline drop much until this last adjustment.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/insights!!

394

But the pump is better than sex, so I’ve heard.

Some of my best bodyparts are the ones I don’t really get a pump in, so I’m not sure how that works.

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395

There’s really too much nonsense online about “pump training”.

396

Contest prep is all about suffering. Strength loss (not too much though), lack of energy, extremely poor sleep, feeling like death, barely able to walk, wondering if you’ll live until the end of the day, these are all experienced in the last 4-8 weeks of a contest prep depending on the individual.

You’re 10 weeks into a cut and not lean enough to be seriously suffering, but 10 weeks on a prep can certainly take a toll. What’s your carb cycling schedule like, in terms of which days are your high, medium and low days, weights, cardio, etc.? If you can post your complete schedule that would be helpful in giving more specific advice.

It’s really hard to say without knowing you or anything about you, but looking at your post I don’t think you adjusted too quickly.

I don’t calipers during a prep or ever anymore, body fat percentage doesn’t matter. Are you happy with how lean you are or not? If not, keep going. I’m sure other competitors will concur that a lot of folks ask what body fat percentage you are or were at the show, I have no idea. Don’t worry about your %, just keep cutting until you look the way you want.

If you’re cutting properly, which you seem to be, it’s a very slow and steady process. I think the fact that your lifts were going up at all is great, but you can’t expect to eat a caloric deficit, lose weight and get stronger. You should be weighing yourself every day to track weight loss, 1-2lb a week is standard for a cut to ensure you’re not losing too much too quickly.

If you can post the details about your macros and carb cycling schedule it’d be easier to give more specifics.

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397

Tuttle, trained back yesterday and made some adjustments and arching my back when doing pullovers via Hammer Strength really helped to keep my lats engaged at the bottom. Thank you again for the tip.

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398

^ exactly. On a serious contest prep, the ONLY thing you are shooting for is body fat loss.

  • I have found that, all things being equal, the scale actually is a fairly good indicator of improvement and progress in the right direction. Correlate with the mirror, but if you were 180 6 weeks ago and had 10 pounds to go, and you are STILL 180… I would be very suspicious

  • You will likely lose a bit of muscle overall, but not necessarily. This is probably overblown from what I have seen out there. I actually think if your training was sub-optimal on a certain body part or it was neglected and you really focus on it during the prep you can even bring it up, but only very locally (like rear delts or biceps or something, I dont think you are going to add 2 inches to your legs)

  • You will almost certainly lose “strength” … Or rather, the ability to showcase it. Once the calories and a bit of protective padding (read: fat) comes back on the strength returns quickly.

  • Because of the cardio requirements for most people, your cardiovascular conditioning will very likely increase… But this is short lived as most people have to cut this after the prep for time and resource reasons.

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399

Exercise sequence…I’m sure it varies from time to time, maybe all the time, but how do you guys chose to sequence your exercises and why? When I train back I’ll alternate horizontal pull, vertical pull, horizontal then vertical. When training chest I alternate press, then fly. I’ll change the sequence the following week. Obviously pre-exhaust will put certain exercises first.

400

I could easily write a long long long reply to this where I detail each muscle group’s exercise sequencing and the reasons behind it. But I think this can be answered in a fairly succinct manner. Here are some options, and each goes with a different goal:

  1. Exercises you’e the worst at → exercises you’re the best at
  2. Main strength exercise → helper exercises
  3. Exercises for visual weakness → exercises for visual strongpoints

But the one that I go by (at the moment) is the concept of #3, but with this ordering:

  1. Exercises to induce a good pump
  2. Exercises to destroy the muscle (blunt force trauma/main lift)
  3. Exercises that stretch the muscle
  4. Exercises that pump the muscle back up

I think it’s fairly obvious that this applies more to legs, back, and chest. You wouldn’t be able to execute that for, say, calves.

I think a really good rule of thumb is to attack your visual weak points before doing things you are good at or improving visually great attributes.

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401

Robstein, thanks for the reply.
For the first 13 weeks, I am using a 5/3/1 template “Conditioning challenge” since I knew I needed a lot of HIIT. Periodizing HIIT with a goal fits my personality for this stuff (started this with not great conditioning because of a hip injury this summer). I also picked that template so I wouldn’t over-program myself. I’ve been doing this for 10 weeks. For the last 5 weeks I don’t think 5/3/1 is a good idea, so I plan to do BB-style push/pull split, different HIIT and maybe add more LISS.
Here’s the plan:
Day 1 Sunday for me (2,200cal, 140g carbs, 220g protein, rest fat)
Front squat 3x5 heavy
OHP 4x10
Row 5x10
OH Triceps 5x12
St Bar Curls 5x10
Ab wheel
Sled intervals (12-15 sets, 40-45s each, 60s rests)

Day 2 LISS (1900cal, 80g carb, 200g pro, rest fat)
Day 3 (same as Day 1)
Pushpress 3x5
Shrug 5x10
DB Tricep Ext 5x10
Band Curls 5x10 (band tied to top of my rack, with a small straight bar handle. Elbows out in front of me, pull handle to my nose)
Leg raise 5x10
Sled (heavier than monday, same distance and rest, 10-12 sets)
LISS after sled

Day 4 - off (same food as day 2)
Day 5 (same food as Day 1 &3)
OHP 3x5 heavy
RDL 3x5 heavy
Facepulls 3x20
Half-Kneeling Landmine Press 5x10/10
Hammer DB Curls 5x10
Sled (heaviest sled, 90s rests, 8-12 sets)

Day 6&7 - diet like Days 2 & 4, LISS, where it fits

Sundays I train in the afternoon, the other sessions are mostly at night (8 or 9pm) I lift in my basement, drag the sled there also. All training after the heavy stuff is alternating sets between two exercises.

I eat my carbs at the meal before my workout, and during/after my training. During the work week, only veggies + pro at breakfast and lunch. Meat and a sweet potato at dinner, then fruit at the start of my training and in the protein shake at the end. Weekends the macros follow the same plan, but switch around the meals if I train earlier in the day. Fats come from eggs, EVOO, animal fat and fish oil, with a few peanuts on occasion if I end up short on calories for the day (allergic to tree nuts). If I train earlier in the day, and my macros allow it, I eat 1/4 - 1/2 cup of oats with 1T of natural PB. This seems to help with the 4am hunger wake up.

I’ve eaten like this before, with less discomfort, but I was not doing HIIT for 20-30min 3x/week. I am fine to trust the process, if this is something I should expect with the process. It sounds like I should stay the course, since I am losing 1lb a week since I made the change.

402

These are awesome ways to think about it! Some of them I was familiar with, and some I was not. I think numbers 1 and 2 may be more applicable, but not restricted to, the ideas of strength training, while number 3 more applicable for bodybuilding.
When implementing the pump-destroy-stretch-pump idea, along with exercise selection, do you put more mental focus into a certain part of a lift? For example, a row movement could be used in anyway way, if it were to be the 3rd exercise, would you just emphasize the stretch portion of the lift? Thank you.

403

I use a similar concept.
Chest workout for example:
Hammer Strength incline press
Incline flies
Flat dumbbell press
Weighted dips

Quads:
Lunges
Squats
Leg extension

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