CS: Do The Opposite

Since MD6 and Androsol/Nandrosol are no longer around, what supplements will you use for the Fat Fast portion? I assume HOT-ROX, but what else?

Thanks

Chris:

As an additional note, as I remember a thread recently where you indicated you were strongly considering doing a special article of sorts on training and/or dietary exceptions for us members of the FFB club.

Here’s an additional suggestion/request - is it possible to add some information to this article, if you have not already considered doing so, on a suggested bulking regime for FFB’s? Perhaps a prototype of your own bulking or mass building programs? Obviously, having been formerly obese myself just several years ago, the eat like a mofo and lift heavy doesn’t quite cut it for me, even if the calories are all super “clean” and in accordance with JB’s 90% compliance suggestions. I can still pack on enuf fat mass in a 8-12 week bulking cycle to take a side job over the summer selling spare shade at the city pool if I’m not careful.

Anyhow, just a suggestion…looking forward to the “Experiment” details!!

[quote]Dave2 wrote:
Since MD6 and Androsol/Nandrosol are no longer around, what supplements will you use for the Fat Fast portion? I assume HOT-ROX, but what else?
[/quote]

Low-Carb Grow! wasn’t available at all back when Brock wrote the original diet, so that’ll be on my list for sure.

Maximum Strength HOT-ROX will replace the MD6. As for the Androsol replacement, I’m not sure yet. I like Methoxy-7, but I also think HOT-ROX may be anti-catabolic enough on its own.

I’m also hearing rumors about something called Carbolin-19 which insiders are encouraging me to use, but I admit I have no idea what it is yet. (It’s not even for sale at this time, but I’ve been offered some.)

Watch the web log for further supp info for this experiment. It may change as I go along. I plan on adding some more info on Friday.

I’ve been asked by a surprising number of people to make daily updates, so I’ll do my best, especially after I get started.

You can be sure there will be plenty of people on this site who will benefit from the info and inspiration photos would provide. Not to mention motivate you, right?
The average person would, of course, give weight to the opinions of idiots who choose to mock no matter what and base his actions around them. So you’ll do the opposite and post photos only if you want to.

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:

Maybe. This is a toughy. See, if I look good I’ll have to listen to idiots accuse me of Photoshop and steroids and ab etching. (Thib did. In fact, I still see threads on other sites accusing him of every nasty thing possible, including using two different people in the photos!)

If I happen (gasp!) not look like exactly like a honky Ronnie Coleman, I’ll have to hear from even more idiots about how I’m not “hardcore” enough. Funny thing is, it’s usually the same idiots, which I like to visualize at fatass teenagers who can’t get laid and therefore get on the Internet to spread woe.

Or if I somehow look just right, I’ll have to deal with idiots making fun of my haircut or chest hair or lack of chest hair or the wallpaper in the background. . . And if I’m too tan I’ll be called a fag for using a tanning bed. Or if I’m too white I’ll be called a fag who needs to get a “fuckin’ tan!” Or if they can’t think of anything else, then I’ll get blasted for daring to mention that I used some Biotest supplements or blasted for a joke I made four years ago in another article.

So the question is, do I want to deal with idiots for the next two years or just write the article/blog and present the info?

I read something interesting over the weekend. It was an article about Arnold and his wife. In it, Maria talks about how she went to Nancy Reagan for advice when Arnold decided to run for governor. Nancy said, “You’re going to get criticized no matter what you do, so fuck’em, do what you want.”

Okay, she didn’t say “fuck’em” but if she would have that would’ve rocked.

So, we’ll see.
[/quote]

If I do the FFB article I’ll definitely include some info on bulking for former fatties.

[quote]JLR wrote:
Chris:

Here’s an additional suggestion/request - is it possible to add some information to this article, if you have not already considered doing so, on a suggested bulking regime for FFB’s? Looking forward to the “Experiment” details!![/quote]

There have been a few successful people who’ve done a PSMF over on Lyle McD’s board. Depending on bodyfat, 1-1.5grams of protein per lb, some veggies, 6grams of fish oils, a multi-vit, and you’re set. Do a full body program 2-3 times a week at 2-3 sets of 6-8 reps. That’s it. Works pretty well. NOt to take away from you’re experiment, but if you’re gonna do it, do it big. Good luck.

How does this look?

4 - Low-Carb Grow shakes (2 scoops) spread out over the day.
6 - Capsules 4-AD-EC
8 - Capsules HOT-ROX (4-Morning/4-Evening)
6 - Capsules Fish Oil (3-Morning/3-Evening)
1 - Multivitamin
2 - Tablespoons Udo’s Choice (1-Morning/1-Evening)
2 - Gallons of water spread out over the day.

Three days a week of TBT and two days a week of ABS/Cardio. This would be about 1000 calories/day.

[quote]RoadWarrior wrote:
How does this look?

4 - Low-Carb Grow shakes (2 scoops) spread out over the day.
6 - Capsules 4-AD-EC
8 - Capsules HOT-ROX (4-Morning/4-Evening)
6 - Capsules Fish Oil (3-Morning/3-Evening)
1 - Multivitamin
2 - Tablespoons Udo’s Choice (1-Morning/1-Evening)
2 - Gallons of water spread out over the day.

Three days a week of TBT and two days a week of ABS/Cardio. This would be about 1000 calories/day.[/quote]

Not bad, but 1000 is too low. Even Brock went 1300 in his original plan. Bodyweight and LBM play a role and everyone is different when it comes to calories, but 1000 seems awful low.

However, by my math you’re actually consuming closer to 1200, not 1000, so you’re pretty close to Brock’s original number he used (for himself at least.)

I’m planning on going higher. My theory is that Brock went too low. Also, I’ll be using no prohormones and Brock did.

It’s up to you of course. Remember, what I’m doing is an experiment to figure out what works best for me in preparation for writing a diet article. So things may change as I go along.

You’re also missing fiber, one reason why I’m shooting for more calories - to add additional protein and fiber. At the very least, look into an unflavored psyllium husk supp.

I’d tell you good luck, but luck is for losers.

Another update:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=538216

Very much looking forward to watching the progress you make Chris, I’m sure you’re going to have a lot of us copycatting what you’re doing. That would be a good thing, besides a group experiment is always better than a single case study right?

I’m suprised the T-staffers haven’t turned your diet into a Think Tank Dialogue topic yet…

I surved the original fat fast for 3 weeks and as a FFB myself it was awesome, until the crash that is…looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
Good luck Chris

Chris, any chance that new supplement Cy has been telling us about may be sneaking into your plan?

RoadWarrior,

I can tell you 1000Kcal is very low , especially for TBT.

I’m 43 y.o., 6’, 275lbs., about 20% bf. I started a cutting cycle and TBT. I was consuming about 2500Kcal/day, which by the beginning of the third week I had dropped to 2300Kcal. By the end of the third week I had hit a wall–in terms of energy, recouperation, CNS recovery, etc. My gains during the fourth week (in terms of added LBM)were about half what they were during week three.

This is the case even though I was using 6 caps (3, 2/day)of MAG-10 Legacy and, during weeks one and two, 4mg. Methyl-D. During weeks three, four, and five I’ve dropped the Methyl-D and added 40 mg. anavar/day.

So, for me anyway, the low calories combined with training the entire body three times a week was a little much–even though I’ve gotten very good results the last month. I really could start to feel I was headed toward overtraining after about two weeks.

I’m now in what I’d call a state of controled overtraining. Thankfully this (the 5th) week is the last week of my cycle and then I’ll be backing off a little on both training and dieting during PCT.

Crowbar

[quote]analog_kid wrote:
Chris, any chance that new supplement Cy has been telling us about may be sneaking into your plan?[/quote]

I’m not sure really. I know what thread you mean but didn’t follow it closely. We’ll see.

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
analog_kid wrote:
Chris, any chance that new supplement Cy has been telling us about may be sneaking into your plan?

I’m not sure really. I know what thread you mean but didn’t follow it closely. We’ll see.

[/quote]

You’re up at 8:00 a.m. on New Years Day? Answering questions?

You are, indeed, a true T-man, Shugs.

Happy 2005.

Chris: a blog describing a transformation such as this would be much better with pics. Sure, some people will bitch and accuse you of cheating or mock your results, but who cares? They’re idiots.

[quote]rainjack wrote:

You’re up at 8:00 a.m. on New Years Day? Answering questions?

You are, indeed, a true T-man, Shugs.

Happy 2005.

[/quote]

Nah, I just don’t get invited to parties since the infamous “pinto bean” incident.

Well some thoughts to help you out with your latest little problem you are facing in your blog Chris. That of the whole food option.

I see one option plain as day that will fill all your requirments of ease, fiber, some whole friggin food, and sticking to the original plan 99.9%

It would consist of simply swaping one word in one of the main ingredients of the original plan for another word. Those being the swap from “Oil,” to “Meal.”

Just swap a good portion of the flax oil out for a good dose of flax meal. The only difference being that you get a nice big shot of fiber. You can make make it into an oatmeal type of dish giving the whole meal portion, though it is a little different, kinda gooey. Mix in some Low-Carb Grow! and it isn’t bad. Nutty flavored sloppy oatmeal.LOL But hey it’s whole right.

Also taking the flax in through the ground meal should lead to slower digestion keeping you from wanting to binge so much later. Fight off the constant hunger a bit.

Add maybe some berries just in the morning batch like you said and you are still VERY close to original plan and it would most likely be just as effective, and a little more healthy of an EXTREME diet.

Just some thoughts,
Gotta run, hope it helps,
Phill

Chris:

Maybe I’ve mis-read, or not read at all, but I don’t see where you’ve addressed PWO nutrition. I think you mentioned upping your Kcal intake on workout days, but I was just curious if you had a PWO plan in place? Would all of the extra calories on training days come from a Surge PWO?

Phill: Interesting ideas. Will keep those in mind.

Rainjack: The post-workout pondering are in the third entry down:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=538216.

Still not quite sure what to do there though.